Termination of pregnancy due to medical reasons

[Newdreams]

Hi I am sorry if this is in the wrong place I don't mean to offend anyone. I am 19 weeks pregnant and have been told my baby has bilateral renal agenesis, this is a fatal condition which means the baby will not survive outside the womb and currently has no amniotic fluid. I have been give the option of termination or waiting for nature to take its course (I have another thread about the build to the diagnosis) but I really wanted to know if anyone been in similar position and what did they chose to do and how did they manage to deal with the emotional side of things. My heart saying to wait bur my head is saying to opt for the termination but I feel exhausted I can't think straight and just wanted to know some other people's experiences.

I don't feel very brave just spent the last hour trying to calm ds I feel like what was so easy for me few weeks ago is so difficult now he doesn't even want to respond to me. I feel like i am letting them both down. Its been a hard day for him so out of his routine but normally i can cqlm him down.

Be gentle on yourself, @Newdreams.

DS will be out of sorts, of course he will, he's only little and will understand that everyone is unspeakably sad.

Can someone take him out for a bit tomorrow? Give him some fun and tire him out so he settles more quickly tomorrow night? And you'll get a break too.

Please don't be hard on yourself and don't expect anything to be or feel normal for a while.

If you can do one thing try to find a counselling service. This changed my life after a similar experience. You don't need to start counselling now but get on a list or find some different options of counsellors and have something to aim for.

Thank you for message about ds my family are keen to look after him but we trying to bring in some form of normality for him but I guess we can't be further from normal even if we tried.

Dh is in bed with him now stroking his head he has finally stopped hitting out and hurting himself. He must have been so confused by the little coffin maybe it was wrong to take him with us but I wanted him to say goodbye and be a apart of today so one day when I tell him about it I can say he was there. I don't even know if I make sense.

In terms of counselling dh has been gently suggesting it said even if not now but maybe sometime in a few months just to help process these feelings. I have come to bed trying to sleep but just going through today trying to remember everything.

@Newdreams

I don't feel very brave just spent the last hour trying to calm ds I feel like what was so easy for me few weeks ago is so difficult now he doesn't even want to respond to me. I feel like i am letting them both down. Its been a hard day for him so out of his routine but normally i can cqlm him down.

Be kind to yourself New. You are all very unsettled, your son will be ok, you are going through traumatic times, take it very easy. You are not letting anyone down, you had to make an awful decision, survived it and are here to tell us about it and we are all sending a big, virtual, unmumsnetty hug. You are a good mum faced with horrible circumstances.

I'm so, so sorry for the pain you are going through and for the loss of your precious daughter. It all feels senseless and these early days are so raw. It doesn't feel like it right now but you will survive this.

My son was stillborn at the end of 2020 and the early weeks/months were truly unbearable, a pain you can only understand once you've felt it. The love and grief you feel for your beautiful baby will never lessen, nor the pain at their loss but you will begin to grow around it while taking her with you. I have never felt brave or strong like people say to me because truthfully when you're dealt this card, you have no choice but to find a way to walk the path. I started bereavement counselling through a baby loss charity around 6 weeks afterwards and it helped me to see some light and slowly learn to live again.

Take it day by day, hour by hour when required. Everything you feel is valid. Very best wishes

@Newdreams

I don't feel very brave just spent the last hour trying to calm ds I feel like what was so easy for me few weeks ago is so difficult now he doesn't even want to respond to me. I feel like i am letting them both down. Its been a hard day for him so out of his routine but normally i can cqlm him down.

Dear New,

The fact you're still existing, still thinking of your DS and trying to function for his sake- all while your heart is shattering- that's real bravery lovely. Being brave doesn't mean not crying and not feeling overwhelmed. Bravery is acknowledging that is how you feel- as you have done- and then letting others help you ❤.

Be kind to yourself. If family are good with your son it might benefit him and you if they spend some time with him- make him happy and give you a break.

Everything is very, very raw still and you will be flooded with hormones right now too. Don't worry about "rights" and "wrongs" or apologise for how you feel, just do what is right for you and your family lovely. There is no "right" way to handle losing your child so please do not feel bad about how you feel, there is nothing you have stated that isn't a reflection of either your humanity, or more importantly, the love of a mother for her child...my heart breaks for you as I have experienced losing a baby and I just pray that time brings that comfort to your heart which just doesn't seem possible to you right now xxx

I'm glad the funeral was exactly how you wanted it to be for your beautiful girl. I don't think taking DS was the wrong decision at all. I've worked with a child bereavement charity and they always advised families to make sure children go to their loved one's funerals. There is so much evidence that it helps even young children say goodbye and start to understand what has happened. I think you made absolutely the right decision New. Sending love and hugs. Xxx

@Newdreams it's funny I didn't want to bother with counsellors as I knew I couldn't feel better, how would the feeling ever go away. So my H arranged the counselling and I'm very glad he did. I didn't want to get over anything but it did help me accept and move forward.

But like the say it's something to aim for n the future and maybe something someone else can arrange for you. Be gentle to yourself today.

Things to do today:
You take your time and give yourself all the time you need to take.

Aims:
eat something
get outside for some fresh air, even 10 minutes sitting outside in your jammies

bonus points for washing

That's it.

Thank you to everyone for holding me up this thread has saved me so much no one here will really truly know how much but it has. I'm so tired didn't sleep last night but trying to play with ds for a little bit before dh takes him out for a walk. Secretly hoping no one turns up today just want to be alone the three of us. Hope my daughter knows I love her just looked at her birth and death certificate and seeing her name was so painful it hurts to even call her name. It's so alien in mouth does that even make sense.

Of course it's painful. It's so unfair.

Grief hurts. Jamie Anderson nailed it:

"Grief, I’ve learned, is really just love. It’s all the love you want to give, but cannot. All that unspent love gathers up in the corners of your eyes, the lump in your throat, and in that hollow part of your chest. Grief is just love with no place to go.”

There is no getting around it, it will hurt because you are a bereaved mother and that is a special type of grief because it is a special type of love.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

Of course it's painful. It's so unfair.

Grief hurts. Jamie Anderson nailed it:

"Grief, I’ve learned, is really just love. It’s all the love you want to give, but cannot. All that unspent love gathers up in the corners of your eyes, the lump in your throat, and in that hollow part of your chest. Grief is just love with no place to go.”

There is no getting around it, it will hurt because you are a bereaved mother and that is a special type of grief because it is a special type of love.

Thank you for this it made so much sense to me. There is all this love for our daughter but don't know what to do with it.

So sorry op. From a practical point of view I believe before 24 wks is miscarriage and you have no maternity leave/pay rights but after 24 weeks it's stilbirth and you do. Just incase you need to consider financial side aa you will obviously need time to recover/grieve/heal. Thinking of you x

These are someone else's words but here they are for you..

Death leaves a hurt no one can heal.
Love leaves a memory no one can steal.

Hold on to the love. I know you don't know what to do with it yet, but you will.

@ChateauMargaux

These are someone else's words but here they are for you..

Death leaves a hurt no one can heal.
Love leaves a memory no one can steal.

Hold on to the love. I know you don't know what to do with it yet, but you will.

Thank you for this. Ds has come back tired from his walk think the fresh ait has done him good he is napping which is so unlike him but I just feel so relieved in a weird way I don't mean it in bad way just I am just lying here next to him and thinking about the last few days. The birth my baby put in my hands the feel of her tiny fingers my heart hurts just thinking of it all. I just said to dh birth was so painful felt so much worse than last time even though I was induced last time too but this was way more intense but it didn't matter in a weird way I didn't want her to come is that crazy I felt the longer she stayed in at least I wouldn't have to face all this so fast. I am sorry I know this seems so random but those were my thoughts I wanted to keep her inside yet it was me that took the medication to make her leave I don't even know what I am thinking I am sorry.

@anonanonanon123

So sorry op. From a practical point of view I believe before 24 wks is miscarriage and you have no maternity leave/pay rights but after 24 weeks it's stilbirth and you do. Just incase you need to consider financial side aa you will obviously need time to recover/grieve/heal. Thinking of you x

Thank you. I have been a carer for my ds since his birth I had to leave work as ds has had many health needs. My dh has been given compassionate leave from work until the end of the month he is more senior level and they have been very understanding. We have a little bit of savings that will hopefully tide us over to be honest the idea of the everyday things havent even occurred to us yet. I'm just trying to countdown the minutes to bed time. I might try and call gp tomorrow dh is saying I can't carry on like this especially for ds he needs me to be well rested too be there for him. I don't think I want to sleep really I'm scared I will forget her if I close my eyes. But I do understand dh concerns we need to be stronger for ds.

@anonanonanon123 A stillbirth is from 20 weeks, not 24.

@Newdreams you're doing amazingly well with your DS! It's fine to remember and hold onto every tiny detail of your daughter's appearance and remember how tiny and perfect she was during those precious cuddles. I totally understand that you wanted to keep her inside - it wouldn't be natural for anyone to want to deliver their baby so early so you were fighting every maternal instinct to keep her safe inside you. Totally normal to feel this way. Can you contact your bereavement midwife and ask for some support if you feel you need it?

[quote Squiff70]@anonanonanon123 A stillbirth is from 20 weeks, not 24.

@Newdreams you're doing amazingly well with your DS! It's fine to remember and hold onto every tiny detail of your daughter's appearance and remember how tiny and perfect she was during those precious cuddles. I totally understand that you wanted to keep her inside - it wouldn't be natural for anyone to want to deliver their baby so early so you were fighting every maternal instinct to keep her safe inside you. Totally normal to feel this way. Can you contact your bereavement midwife and ask for some support if you feel you need it?[/quote]
Thank you now you mention I think she is due to call me again either today or tomorrow she called when we got discharged and did say she would call after funeral. I might just speak to her for a bit because I do feel like nothing makes sense anymore. I am trying I promise to keep things going for ds had it not been for him I'm not sure where I would be but I guess I am struggling with it all to.

@Newdreams I'm just thinking too - the longer you go without sleep the more chance your memory may be affected. You say you don't want to sleep as you're scared you'll lose the images of your little girl in your mind but actually the opposite is true. Going days without sleep is extremely damaging to our mental and physical health so please, please try and sleep even if it's only for an hour or two. I promise you'll wake up and you will remember your baby. It won't make you forget any aspect of her.

[quote Squiff70]@Newdreams I'm just thinking too - the longer you go without sleep the more chance your memory may be affected. You say you don't want to sleep as you're scared you'll lose the images of your little girl in your mind but actually the opposite is true. Going days without sleep is extremely damaging to our mental and physical health so please, please try and sleep even if it's only for an hour or two. I promise you'll wake up and you will remember your baby. It won't make you forget any aspect of her.[/quote]
I am going to try tonight maybe have a wash before bed I am tired just can't sleep my chest feels tight even typing this.

It is good to voice your thoughts, even in writing. They are not crazy. It is not surprising that the birth was more difficult, the mind and the body work together and the hormones required for labour are intrinsically linked with feeling safe and you did not feel safe because you knew that your baby would not live so of course you wanted to hold on to her inside for as long as possible even though the rational part of your brain knows that you had made the right decision for her.

You will be strong enough for your DS. Take your time. It is OK to grieve, to be sad, to cry, to try to process this unfathomable pain that you have experienced. You do not have to shut it all up and put it out of sight. Speak as much as you want or can to the bereavement mid wife, she will have more experience of this than your GP. If you feel like you need your GP's support to get through this, by all means, do, they can probably offer sleeping tablets, may be able to refer you to counselling and will likely want to see you again in case they think you would benefit from more support, but don't feel like that your grief is wrong. Your DS will be affected by the death of his sister and the grief that his parents felt at the time but talking about it, explaining why you feel sad will help him to understand what is happening and help him process it in the best possible way. Turning your emotions off, hiding the from him will leave him feeling sad but not knowing why and not understanding his own feelings. Grief is human, it is how we are programmed to deal with death.

It is so so hard to make sense of death. I would actually say it is impossible. It is what religions throughout the ages have tried to do. All I can say, is love is the answer. If there are people you love that you can have around you, bring them close. Remind yourself of your love for your husband and your son and know that you will never forget the love you have and will always have for your daughter.

Thinking of you op. Definitely speak to your gp. I had an early miscarriage this year and they were good then and gp gave me a few nights sleeping pills. You need to try get some sleep for your DS, definitely speak to gp and take all the help you can get.

@Squiff70 sorry, you're wrong. Check NHS website.

@Newdreams
I read a book called "saying goodbye" when I lost my twins. I found it really helpful, like I didn't know that when you are pregnant that baby changes your dna. That means your daughter will always be a part of you no matter what. I'm sending you strength and care xx

Thank you all for ur messages of support. I guess I should have said I had a real breakdown after my son was born there was a lot of trauma around his birth and I was veery unwell afterwards but once I was on mend my sons health took a turn for the worse and I became fixated on watching him I wouldn't sleep or anything which is why dh is encouraging me to call gp and get some help with sleep even if for a night. I know this must make me sound like a deranged mum but it was a really difficult time for me and my emotions where everywhere. I am sorry. I don't have any energy for a shower now but I am going to bed soon hopefully to get some sleep.