Parents and carers of anxious kids/teens(part5)

[Stilllivinginazoo]

Hi guys
Just spotted we have filled another thread!
I started part 1 during the journey with my sons escalating anxiety
This thread is a non judgemental place to support each other
As parents and carers we recognise how hard,stressful,and often lonely,this unseen battle can be.others dismissing small wins as the norm for most etc
Please feel free to offload here,share your small wins,take the support and comfort this thread brings

@alwaysscared Phenergan is safe to use at night. I used to use it every now & then on my 4 kids on the recommendation of my dad - a doctor & mum - a nurse. I've never used it for anxiety in children though. Try using it tonight, so you get a good night's sleep. The sheer exhaustion of you both, must mean you can't think straight and tiredness makes kids totally irrational.

@Fferny1 thank you

always D's hated it purely because we could only get orange flavour and whilst contains no oranges he's allergic to them so he wasn't happy with it.we used it a couple of times.it didnt magically make him tired.qpoarently works best given near to time normally settle to encourage a sleep pattern that's not nightwalking and a set point bedtime(which can be bought forward a little every few night)

And nothing wrong with milk and chocolate

always if you can't keep DS safe take him to A&E.

Sleep clinics/CAMHS etc. should only prescribe melatonin or other medication to help with sleep in addition to good sleep hygiene, so it would be a good idea to think about that. What time is DS going to bed and getting up? Has he gotten into a vicious cycle of going to sleep late and getting up late? One of the first things a sleep clinic will tell you is DS should be up by a set time each morning regardless of what time he fell asleep, and to not allow him to lie in bed all day. What is his bedtime routine like? What does he do when he can't sleep?

What would your ideal response from CAMHS be?

It is also worth thinking about why DS doesn't want to go out. What is it about going out that he's finding difficult? This will be easier to sort at 8 than 18. If not leaving the house becomes the habit it is much harder to change. Avoidance breeds further anxiety and DC get entrenched in a vicious circle of being in a heightened state. Several others on here have found this too. What is he doing during the day? If you had to go out and had no one to leave him with what would happen? If you forced him to go into the garden what would happen?

Medical appointments have to be non-negotiable, as does VitD imo as VitD deficiency won't help. DS can't rationally make the decision of what is in his best interest. I once caught DS1 emptying a dose of a medication that costs £1000/month down the sink because he didn't like it and thought the time could be better spent elsewhere. Thankfully not done it since.
Eye drops are a nightmare too, we have to hold him for him to get them in.

Are you having counselling yourself?

Really sorry you're having such a rough day always wish I had more advice to help you. I really like zoo's suggestion of sitting by the back door as a distraction and using mindfulness. Are there any techniques you've used before which he has responded to? Do you have pets or any particular things he likes to do?

If I were you I would just keep pushing and pushing, ringing the GP/CAMHS as much as you need to. It sounds like melatonin would be a good option for him but like leap says you'll be expected to show you are dealing with his sleep hygiene (I have a friend in a similar situation who had to do the same).

Also trying to keep to your normal routine as much as possible to show him that even though he is anxious life goes on as normal, (even when it's all you can think about). I found it helped for us to acknowledge ds's anxiety but also to be more matter of fact about it, something that we could cope with ifkwim? Sorry that last bit may not be helpful, I know it's so tough parenting a highly anxious child

@1leapforward2back he has got into a vicious circle of sleeping late and waking late. We are slowly making him come upstairs earlier and earlier at bedtime, to no avail. I do let him sleep in, because, to be honest, I need the sleep myself (fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue) but I get that I need to start waking him earlier. It doesn't matter what time he wakes though, sometimes he will naturally wake at 7, he still can't sleep at night. He has huge panic attacks.
Today my concern though is the fact that he feels he can't move, and if he moves he will be sick. That is also why he won't go out, he is scared of seeing gross stuff which will make him be sick. I have talked and talked to him about how it's just his body's response to anxiety etc etc but he wont/can't engage in any talk about it.
He has hit a crisis level that we weren't expecting and we are scared

Ds finds blowing bubbles helps a lot when his anxiety levels are up, it helps regulate his breathing and ground him more

Sorry to hear this always. We have to remember how pervading anxious thoughts can be and how overwhelming sensory overload can be, and also how interlinked they both are - each making the other worse.

I would suggest you call the camhs crisis line for your area and explain what is going on right now. They will be able to talk to you and give you advice on what to do right now. They will also be able to check what the next steps in treatment are.

If ds won't come out of his room, do you think he may be a risk to himself?

@AnneOfAvonlea if tonight is as bad as last night I will be ringing tomorrow.
He won't hurt himself, although he isn't eating. He has started skin picking, he has a cut in between his fingers which he keeps picking. He also has started to pick the skin behind his knees, and it's looking sore

always I have two skin pickers..very hard to stop this anxious habit if it gets too ingrained
Dd2 uses an elastic band around her wrist now,pinging it when she's stressed against her skin
Lil zoo picks anything- blisters,edges skin around her nails,scabs and grazes.i find it very hard not to react to them as I know it makes things worse
Hope you have a better night tonight

I’m a skin picker, as soon as my anxiety goes up I eat and pick the skin around my fingers. I am yet to find anything that works to stop it. It’s how my loved ones know if I’m masking

always As difficult as it is DS needs to be woken and out of bed at a reasonable time in the morning. Otherwise it becomes a self perpetuating cycle. It's not a quick fix, it will take days/weeks of going to bed and getting up earlier to make inroads. When you sleep later and get up later the quality of sleep isn't the same. Even if you get medication (and many HCPs will refuse to prescribe if good sleep hygiene isn't in place) it won't work as well without good sleep hygiene. Can DH help?

Even if DS won't accept what he feels is a physiological response to his anxiety you know it is and he is unlikely to vomit if he moves.

Starry DS1 is much better when dealt with matter of factly. He is a catastrophizer and everything is the end of the world.

Sirzy's suggestion of bubbles to regulate breathing is a good idea. Similar activities that can work are blo-paints and blow football.

DS1 and DS3 are skin pickers, we find the best way to manage it is keeping their hands busy - fidget toys, puzzle cube, rubik's cube, Lego, blu tack, ripping tissue, stress toy. Doesn't solve the unconscious picking when they are asleep though.

I always have a spare hair bobble (the no snag type) on my wrist as an easy discrete fiddle!

Thanks everyone. He has fidget toys, chewers, everything.
I don't know if to give him the phenergan, I just don't know what to do. I wish the doc had just said yes to it, not even prescribed it, just said yes it's ok

When DS starts to skin pick direct him to something else. Sometimes DS probably isn't even consciously aware he is doing it.

The GP can't do that.

Look @always Phenergan is perfectly safe. I used to give it to my babies. Your son is 8, so not a baby. If your doctor won't prescribe anything and you can't get your son out you're in danger of catastrophizing and thinking the worse. Because you're just too exhausted to think straight. Try it for one night and see if your son sleeps better.

@Fferny1 thank you again, I need a kick up the arse. He's still awake, we will be giving it soon

Well that was a disaster. He literally licked a tiny bit off the spoon, declared that he hated it and it made him more anxious. He's now an anxious mess who can't sleep again. FML

always I 100%feel your distress.can I ask whether you have ever not given a choice over something and if so what happens?
The reason I ask is I think you may have reached the point his world has shrunk so much to avoid anxiety his brain is on constant high alert assuming everything is a danger.we noticed this in D's and it was confirmed by camhs to be something that happens
I know right now you are at breaking point and the exhaustion must be crushing you but something has to change cos right now neither of you are happy and you sound like you areexisting not living
Sending big hugs.xx

always It sounds like you are having such a rough time. I'm sorry - I don't really have anything useful to offer by way of advice, but I'm sending strength, and the recognition that you are doing the very best you can for him.

I think I've posted this before, but we've found that a Glow Dreaming light has helped DD to stay asleep a bit longer. Not a cheap fix (£80ish).

Not sure on your DS's likes and dislikes, but another thing that has helped has been distraction activities. This started with very low level stuff (colouring in was the best), and following her lead towards other crafty things. A rubics cube has also helped, as have films and TV series, reading and audio books.

bubbles if you still use colouring magic painting books on Amazon are fab.sometimes dd2 gets in such a pickle she can't decide on colours and this takes away that decision

Always, I have been here with dd so my heart is breaking for you. I can give some advice based on what I have done with dd.

Skinpicking is s form of self-harm, just subtle. My dd also bites nails until they bleed, scratches body during meltdown or anxiety attacks and this has escalated to using a scalpel/razor on her arms. She is 14 though. A hair band on the wrist like @sirzy has and encouragement to ping it when needed is helpful.

Regarding the anxiety, it has reached crisis level so please keep calling camhs, sob down the phone until they offer help.

And in terms of how to help DS, firstly just take a step back. Stop, get some sleep yourself and leave him be if you think he is safe. He will feed on your stress and exhaustion. When you have had some rest and can deal with this a little better then try and prioritise what you are trying to achieve. I would suggest:

• eat
• sleep
• reduce anxiety

Don't worry about him not leaving his room for now, take whatever food and drink he considers acceptable to him just so you know he is eating. A brain without supplies will not work properly. We learnt this through DDs ARFID.

Don't force any interactions on DS. My DD still struggles with DH. They haven't touched for 2 years except maybe 5 hugs at dds instigation.

Just think of today. Get through today. Talk to DS about what he would like to do, focus on positive reinforcement all the time (not easy) and you may spend the day in his room. But try and spend the day doing something other than focusing on sleep or getting him out if at all possible. 1leap is correct that a standard wake time needs to be brought in and the sleep will take a while to fix, my dd literally cannot sleep without melatonin though. Ask the gp for a paediatrician referral.

Keep posting here. The gang have helped me many times...

Anne💖lots good tips there
My brains reached the joys of peri fog and your articulation is waaay better than mine

Zoo - I feel like I have been helped a lot on this board but not really given much back. Feels a bit odd and sad to be one of the wise ones now