Family of 5 in one bedroom... illegal overcrowding?

[Skysha]

Hello all, I'm new to this. So I have a quick question and can people be mindful with being offensive as I suffer from post natal psycosis and negative comments can hurt deeply.

So I live in a one bedroom flat with my husband, 5 year old son and twin girls who have just turned one.

According to the overcrowding 'law' we are overcrowded as we have equivalent 3.5 people living in what they would consider two bedroom since the living room can be slept in.

I was wondering if anyone else has been in my situation or any advice on what I can do would be great. Due to my mental health since I've had my girl I have had the social workers, perinatal team, crisis (home treatment team) and now the early intervention psycosis working alongside me. Truth be told my mental health is a bigger problem then housing but it's getting very overcrowded now.

According to shelter, this would not be classed as overcrowding as your children are under 10 years of age.

Is it your house, or rented? Any housing benefit/housing association etc?

If it’s your own house, AFAIK it’s up to you who you have living with you and in what conditions. If it’s rented, the landlord probably won’t want that many people because it will invalidate their insurance. If it’s council, they should be re-housing you.

You could still apply for a council house, but it does not sound like you would be priority.

@wereyouharewheniwasafox

According to shelter it is considered illegal overcrowding according to space standards. We have one bedroom and one living room so technically two rooms and I have three children equivalent to 1.5 persons (0.5) per child under the age of 10.

I am living in a council property

Currently not in housing benefit as I was on maternity but have been eligible since October but haven't made an application as I have to go in and provide evidence and I get alot of anxiety leaving the house. I will be applying and back dating. My mental health team are not allowing me to return to work and I'm dying to get back in to some form of routine but they have classified me as not fit to work. So I honestly just don't know where to go from there.

Wow that all sounds really tough. You also sound very brave and resilient. I don’t have any advice on this. Just sympathy. Do you have a partner, family member or friend to reach out to to help you process your claim and access this help? If ever there was a time to lean on someone, it is now. Can your mental health team give you any assistance or put you in the right direction?

if either the sitting room or bedroom is over 8.4m2 of usable floor space then you aren't technically/legally overcrowded (see Shelter page) as any room that size is OK for 1.5 people where kids age 1-10 count as 0.5.

There's some general advice here but unless one of the rooms is very small you may not be able to get official recognition of your overcrowding for a few years yet.

however that doesn't mean you just have to live with it. I can't imagine how overwhelming it must have been just surviving the first year of twins. every year after this will be a little easier. your resilience will increase. eventually you'll feel able to do more, but for now just focus on being kind to yourself and nurture your improving mental health. you will be OK.

@mummyoflittledragon
Yeah they are willing to write letters and are in the process of it. I have twin girls and having the toilet bathroom and bedroom as well as kitchen and living room close by was very handy. I have my husband who is great and family too. Family don't know about my mental health as I believe there is a stigma about mental health in my culture (I'm Asian Bangladeshi) my mental health team keep indirectly threatening me by talking about sectioning or what they like to call hospital stay that's why part of me can't even be bothered to apply for anything and basically suffer. I will get onto housing benefit as we can't afford full rent now. Housing is an issue for me right now but nothing is more tougher than battling with server mental health

This link is to the Shelter website.
england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/check_if_your_home_is_overcrowded_by_law

On the first criteria you are not overcrowded as they don't count children under 10, but on the next method based on 'space', they count children over 1 as 0.5 giving you a total of 3.5. The limit for two rooms is 3, so you are overcrowded by 0,5. You could also check the other section on room size if you know the measurements.

I guess it depends on which definition your council accepts, but you could surely quote the Shelter 'space' criteria to back up your claim. Good luck!

Thank you for your kind words @peaqikicomhequo
My bedroom has very little floor space to move around and the bedroom itself is small. Honestly, I reckon I survived only because my place was small and everything was close by in the flat, I wouldn't have coped if I had to constantly be running upstairs and downstairs. The only down fall is I don't get to take the twins out much because it's hard to take one to the car and then go back up to get the second one. My mental health is my main concern and then returning to work but this housing situation is tiring. My husband and twin one sleep on a mattress in the living room and I sleep on a king size bed with twin 2 and my son. We don't even have space to fit two cots and my girls refuse to sleep in one and they are pretty big now too.

Well yes you are overcrowded but unfortunately the standards for housing in the UK have seriously been downplayed in recent years. Have you spoken to your council housing department to see if they will help? Have you applied for bigger accommodation? You used to be able to get your doctor or medical team to support your application if it was affecting your health, but again I don’t know if that applies any longer. The only other option would be a larger private rental, but I wouldn’t advise losing a council tenancy. Have you looked into doing an exchange. Is your flat in a nice area. If so, someone in two bedrooms may be willing to downsize.

Thank you @Notveryadventurousname for your response.
According to the housing law 1985 you only need to fit into one of the category/criteria for it to be considered illegal overcrowding. I will attempt to speak to them, Iv had so much on with my health I haven't had the chance to even work out what to do. So far I have extra points and I am bidding. That's why I posted on this forum, it's nice having such lovley people giving me advice. Otherwise I wouldn't even know where to start from

@user1457017537 thank you for your response.

I did have a word with them before the girls were one and before the age of one they are not considered at all in terms of illegal overcrowding. I have been biding for 2/3 bedrooms but no luck and I'm from east London and there's a massive shortage here already as it is. Right now I'm not fit to work so we couldn't even afford private and where IV been here for a few years I'm a secure council tenant now and I'd hate to lose that. I have tried for exchange even on home swapper but everyone wants a garden or no stairs and I can't accommodate around that. And yeah there are a few professionals willing to write to the council on my behalf but I heard those letters don't work like that anymore. It's a tough one.

@drivemissdaisy that's a very silly comment. the OP had one DC and then had twins. there never was a decision to have a 3rd child. there was a decision to have a 2nd child and the flat wouldn't be overcrowded with 2 kids. no one gets to choose whether a pregnancy results in twins.

@drivemissdaisy

I hate to say this I didn't get pregnant the third time. You should have read before you replied. I had twins so was I meant to abort one twin or something? I only had two pregnancies and I didn't imagine to have twins. And I am grateful thanks. The plan was my son has his own room and me and my husband and baby in living room until we can afford to move out or buy. But I had twins and it's been a stressful journey so don't be replying with your negative comments. You should be grateful you don't have twins and double the struggle.

So why can't the three children share the bedroom and you and your husband in the living room?

Would it really be illegal overcrowding when the people were not overcrowded when they moved in there. It was obviously fit for purpose at the time they were given the property, surely people can't just automatically be expecting to be moved into bigger properties because they chose to have more children, otherwise where would it end?

@drivemissdaisy
I don't wish to explain my self any further to you. I asked for advice on this forum not some random keyboard warrior telling me why do I have three kids and then tell me to put all three together when my 5 year old wakes up several times a night already because my girls don't sleep through the night and that's just having one twin in the room with my son and me.

@MidniteScribbler thank you for your response.
When I moved in it was just me, my son who was 2 then and my husband. It was enough space at the time. My son is almost 6 now. I respect what you are saying but I didn't chose to have twins. If I had another one baby it wouldnt have been overcorwded but I had twins. And I didn't even know I was having twins until 12 weeks, I couldn't have had an abortion because of my housing circumstances.

I'm not suggesting you should have had an abortion, I'm just genuinely curious about whether you could really go down the 'illegal overcrowding' when they gave you the property in good faith and it did fit your purposes at the time. Otherwise you could end up with people having multiple children and keep being moved up to bigger and bigger houses. Surely if you were given a fit for purpose home, then any further choices you make about having more children or moving in a partner are entirely the responsibility of yourself (and your partner), not the council.

I’m glad you’re not alone and getting help from family and the mh team. Sorry I forgot you said you have a dh in the op - not had much sleep.

Please don’t give up because there has been talk of sectioning you. This could then become a self fulfilling prophecy. I imagine somewhere inside you realise giving up gives them more reason to actually do so. If you need to be sectioned some time in the future so be it.

For now I’d take advice from the team. Perhaps try to chunk out your time to get some kind of routine if that would be helpful. Maybe planning something nice to do for you each day even if it’s lie in the bath or play on a computer game for half an hour or being alone in the bedroom for a couple of hours with ear plugs.

Can you also talk to the mh team about them regularly mulling over the decision to section you? I’d find that very disconcerting and triggering and not find this useful. Can they explain the reasoning for regular discussions?

drivemissdaisy
Id say op had a couple of minutes to think in between giving birth to her second and third child. I expect she just wanted her third child to live and finish giving birth tbh.

MidniteScribbler
No the government cannot in any way stop people from procreating. Childless people also get allocated social housing under certain circumstances. What you are suggesting is that they never have children. Even China has rescinded the one child rule. The only cap is the 2017 benefits cap on more than 2 children.

@MidniteScribbler
Fair play, but again it would have been space if it was just the one baby and my son. Twins aren't planned. And yes it is our responsibility but we can't keep with it. We can't afford to move and rent elsewhere. We don't get housing benefit. Living in overcrowded situations can effect children's in a number of way. My son wakes up several times on a school night. I can't sit by and watch my kids grow up in a small accomodation. The council are there to help people and families. And I'm stuggling with mental health so unfortunately I can't take on that responsibility.