Dp cannot cope with the mess of toys

[itsnotmessy]

Since Christmas my dp has really been struggling. He likes things to be in order and tidy but as you can imagine with Christmas just gone and 3 children off school, the house isn't perfect. The children have been given lots of toys and he's struggling to cope with seeing the toys out. I've tidied them away the best I can but once they want to play they make quite a mess. The problem is I encourage their play but dp hates it. He has already made a mental list of things to go to the charity shop. Some of which is new toys hardly played with. Our children don't have masses of things but toys like lego can cause quite a bit of mess when scattered around. Is there any ways anyone can suggest so I can make the house look less of a mess when the children are playing ?

I'm not saying your DH doesn't love the kids, but the way he is treating them is really awful. When asked what makes him a good father, the only examples you could give were:

he does love his children dearly and tells them all the time

It;s good to tell your children you love them. However, if you say you love them, and then behave in an unloving fashion, it sends a very confusing message.

He spoils them with treats outside the house

....and that's all the good you can find to say about him? He buys them stuff when you're out? Other things loving parents do include:

Spending time with their children
Listening to how they think and feel
Supporting and encouraging them in their interests - and I don't mean "taking them to football" I mean painting with them if they like painting, baking with them if they like baking, lego with them if they like lego, etc.
Taking an active role in their day to day care - doing bathtimes, cooking their food, looking after them when they are ill, etc
Reading to them and with them

...and loads of other stuff. Buying them treats is really more what an indulgent uncle should get a pat on the back for.

It's just when there is a mess or toys he stresses out completely

Kids are messy.

He can be really fun and happy one minute then next minute shouting that the house is a tip and we need to throw stuff out

That's actually worse for the kids than if he was angry all the time. That unpredictability of never knowing when he might kick off, when the fun times will suddenly and terrifyingly switch to him shouting, the sheer uncontrolability of it.

Please protect your kids from his temper. Don't appease, don't "compromise" by agreeing they can have one toy a day or whatever. Insist that he gets help, and tell him if he ever, ever throws their possessions away, you will leave and mean it.

Why is he like he is? Was it something in his childhood that triggered the no mess thing? Does he want history repeating itself with his children?

If the mere sight of a toy box is affecting him mentally, this is no longer a problem for you or your children to deal with. He needs to speak to his GP, organise cognitive behaviour therapy and/ or some other coping mechanism. He can go for a walk or spend time in his bedroom. Don't allow this to get worse.

Keep the toys; get rid of the bullying DP.

Seriously. You will lose your children when they grow up if you carry on this way. They will not thank you for keeping them in a home where they couldn't be children, couldn't play, had to tiptoe around in fear, watch their things get chucked by someone who put themselves ahead of them on a daily basis.

If he can't let children be children, then he needs to sit in his room by himself which is presumably tidy enough to his standard or he needs to live by himself.

Tell him to get help or get out. But he is not to touch the children's things.

I was also wondering what his childhood was like.

I don't see a problem with putting something away before getting something else out.

But doesn't like to see a box of toys in the room & if it's in their room it's a sign that they have too much?

Wtf??

He needs to be away from you & the kids.

You must all be walking on eggshells around him.

BewareofDragons - I agree to an extent but the OP won't necessarily lose the love of her children because of the way their father acts. I always find comments like 'they'll end up hating you too' a bit scare mongering.

I don't love my mum any less for putting up with my cunt of a father - in fact, I love her more for being strong enough to cope with his plethora of bad moods whilst trying to keep us kids safe and happy. I did wonder why she stayed with him but financially she had few options and he gas lit her at every occasion. I don't blame her for staying and I don't blame her for my fathers actions - they are his entirely. Your comment suggests that unless the OP bins off her DH the kids will end up hating or resenting her and that simply isn't as black and white as that. If the children feel comforted and happy around the Mum, then it's unlikely they'll resent or hate her.

Kids toys effecting his mental health needs to be dealt with in a way that doesn't effect the children, you know that...
It's totally his issue.

My dh's friend confided in him that he was worried about his children. Their mother is very clean, tidy and controlled and his 3 year old is becoming anxious if her books aren't lined up with spines in a straight line and can't continue playing if she doesn't fix it. Your children will have a reaction to living like this, and if they are already as tidy and wee-behaved as you say, this has already started.

Affecting...

He doesn’t want to look like the bad guy who walked out on his family

Its telling that he is worried about appearances rather than effects. He already is the bad guy.

Does he have a diagnosed MH issue or is he seeing someone to get a diagnosis or even accepting that he needs to?

Because if not, he is just a common or garden bully. Simply saying he is stressed out by the sight of toys is not the same as having an MH problem. Sudden personality changes are common in bullies, not just people with certain types of MH issue.

It's interesting that your op ends with you asking for suggestions as to how you can make things more suitable for your dh, rather than how your dh can make things more suitable for your kids.

Stop prioritising his control issues and put the kids first. If your dh can't allow your children to lead a norrmal child's life in their own home the problem lies with him, not the mess. What can he do to sort this out?

" He has become very selfish the past few years but I am putting that down to his mh problems."

Don't. Put it down to his selfishness and address that.

I can understand his MH worsening since having children - it's a very stressful life event and you lose your old self and your old life. He has lost control of his environment, and he obviously struggles to share his space with small chaotic messy people (as all children are). He has years of this ahead of him, so it sounds like he needs some counselling and or support with strategies to help him find the right balance. As a parent he should be encouraging and supporting (and doing!) tidying but not expecting total control over the children, their playing or their things.

CBT (the mumsnet answer to all MH problems) is not going to help if he doesn't think the problem lies with him and that really is the crux of the matter. No therapy or counselling in the world will help if the person feels that it is everyone else that is the problem Firstly he needs to be psychologically minded and most importantly want to change.

From everything you have said it would seem that he wants you and the DC to change, so your decision is a hard one unfortunately. To stay and continue to change yours and the DC's behaviour to suit him or ask him to leave so that you can live with some mess.

Agree totally with Mrscaindingle.

I'd predict he will not change no matter what therapy or support was thrown his way.

I think he needs to get some help for his issue, not let his problem take over the children’s lives
This. It is the crux of parenting with any MH issue.

And if he laughs at the idea that kids need to play... WTF?! That bit is arrogance talking not MH. A good dad would accept that undeniable fact as true, and admit he found it hard, not just deny it.

Does he realise that overly controlling parents are often a factor in later hoarding? I know it's extreme but I do know lots who cling onto everything as a reaction against having no control as children :( I am not saying this to scare you but maybe telling him they could end up hoarding (has he seen TV shows about it?) would actually shock him into action

What mental health condition has he been diagnosed with?

Or does he just not like children.

If children are not allowed to be children - what kind of adults will they become?

He has been diagnosed with a mh condition and is on medication and has had cbt in the past. He obviously knew children would have toys but it's seeing them out that gets him stressed. My father was a bit like him which is probably why it upsets me so much.

Then either he needs more support for his MH or he needs to accept that he can’t cope living with young children around.

A solution could be for you to be together but apart. So stil together but he has his house to go back to, one wo any clutter at all.

Hermoine I really think that is the way forward, living separate but he doesn't want to do that.

I really think that is the way forward, living separate but he doesn't want to do that

So what does he want.

He needs to recognise he is the one with the problem but he is asking you and the dc to change how you live.
It is ok for you and the dc to be unhappy but how selfish for us to suggest he changes

I always say if something is weird there's a reason why most people don't do it and it probably won't work out for you. The answer here is to do the normal thing. Dh gets help and therapy for his problems or you split up.

It's tough what he wants. He isn't willing to accept he needs help and is sacrificing his children's happiness and development.

Dd had a friend with a mum like this. She was constantly on edge and nervous. The friend I mean - at 4 years old! Horrible.

Its not about what he wants is it!

It's about what's best for the kids and you.

If what he wants is all he thinks about then that is selfishness and not the MH problem talking! That can't be cured with therapy.

He can't just do NOTHING! Not move out, not seek extra help, not change at all - you must see that cannot work?

His MH declined when he had dc, this is sadly more common than people realise. It's often based on fear due to what happened to the parent when they were young.

The other common trigger is for a parents MH to decline when the child reaches the age that the incident at the root of the MH condition occurred. Many people hide their childhood traumas due to shame and embarrassment these are the real reasons why they have MH issues. CBT has its place amongst therapies but getting the right treatment is imperative to a recovery.

He may or may not have the correct diagnosis, it depends on how honest he has been to his healthcare professionals. The Meds he takes could in theory make his condition worse if they are not the right ones. I'm not anti meds at all but for instance if a person with a mood disorder is put on anti depressants it can make them more unwell.

Rather than breaking up immediately the root of his issues needs to be addressed, if he refuses then decisions need to be made about your future relationship, I can see why you would break up.

You do not need to share but do you have any idea about incidences when he was younger and if he has siblings what is their MH like? Though the experience of one child in a family can be very different to another.