I dont know what to do and its all getting worse

[elementofsurprise]

I dont think i'm supposed to need help, I mean, I can't expect people to care or be there for me. But I'm not coping alone so I'm unsure what to do now. I keep trying to tell myself it'll all be ok and just keep pressing on, but in reality im spending more and more time just weeping and barely leaving flat and my world is so restricted and everyting just seems harder and harder. I feel like im completely spearate from others, like we speak a different language or something. I dont know how to ask for help or who to ask. My local MH services are very very overstretched and don't offer longterm therapy etc, im not an imminent danger to myself or others which is all they cover. Yet my problems are complex and disabling so the primary care team wont see me either as also dont meet their remit.

For years I've not had proper friends, just people I know, well maybe proper friends in some ways but all misfits like me. That sounds nasty, its not meant to, I just mean not people I can rely on or massively similar etc. And mainly just people I hung out with rather than proper friends. Bit of a studently feel to it, if that makes sense - I felt quite dfferent because i'd mastered stuff like housework . I have loads of aqauintances who are more simiar to me in other ways but because i'm unemployed and perceived as 'mental' I don't fit in. My marginalisation and lonliness has made me weirder, too. I barely see anyone now, the odd social event but apart from that just one person who pops in to see me. I can do socialising, i'm good at parties and things at chatting to people, I just cant seem to make proper friends and as get older is harder. But that is not the point of my post, just explaining why I cant turn to anyone. Although I shouldn anyway.

I want to give up. Im so frightened. Im not suicidal exactly but Im scred im going to go properly mad, or already starting. Im doing Open Uni and focussing on that but finding concentration so hard. Getting more anxious and shaky. Keep just crying. I just do not know what to do after trying so hard with evetything for so long. Open uni seemed like a good idea but it means i go out even less as getting the work done. Anything I try to do to make things better just seems another mountin to climb and means i have to give up something else. I'm less capable by the day. I feel completely overhlemed with the horror and pain that has been my life, I feel sick with the mess of it all despite always trying so hard. I dont even know how to ask for help anymore because if I see anyone I automatically cover it all up. Not completely sucessfully, I tend to just seem a bit dozy instead of sad.

I have a GP appt tomorrow but its to discuss referral to CMHT he made. They have asked him not to refer me again, so I expect they've rejected it. Even if they havent they are convinced I have BPD. If I do, I dont present with it typically. All their focus is on getting me to act the part and not ask for any help (I dont self harm or anything). They see me not being in touch as a success, the pressure to just keep quiet and please them is immense. I cant tell anyone how it feels inside and if I do they dont listen, or think it's attention seeking or something. I just can't get them to take any notice of or help with the problems I actually have.

Im so sorry, I just dont know what to do. I dont know what I'm supposed to think, whether Im suppsoed to need help or what to do either way. Im so sorry.

howcan I have read loads about the BP dignosis, the context of it etc. Personally I think in a lot of ways it is the modern day "hysteria" diagnosis - discrediting women who are actually affected by things/have been through things that are not right.

I find it difficult that if I need support or just want to be open with someone they generally are fully in agreement with the medical model of mental health and wanting me to 'seek help' etc.

Having said that, it doesn't seem to matter how I view it all, I'm still struggling day to day and just want that to stop!

Its nice to hear from someone who understand where I am coming from a bit more though. :)

Have you ever had the space to talk about what has happened to you and have that validated?
Sort of. I found that helpful in therapy (private) but towards the end it went a bit weird and was massively invalidated by her. In hindsight I think I know why that happened (she was lied to about me), but the feeling of helplessness and being judged on stuff that isnt actually true was very triggered by that.

I also used to have a friend I could talk to about all this and it was very helpful just knowing that someone knew, and believed me. (He got a partner and isn't allowed female friends anymore )

AuntyElle No, when I menioned using my experiencs to help people when I'm better, I didn't mean not helping them now. I meant that maybe I'm going through this crap for a reason - that it is sort of training me up to be able to help people in a specific way. A sort of cosmic pre-determined blah blah...
Also, I have always been a nurturer. I always planned to be a nurse, I've been there for so many people even when others wouldnt bother, and in particular I care about those peple that others seem to cast aside... Eg. I am much more likely to respond to a post on here if it's been up a while and no replies than if there's plenty of people already replying. Or send a pm to someone who's been overlooked. I find it harder to care about people who already have people caring. I think I might be weird in that respect.

Anyway I have been taken advanatge of for caring, felt used etc. I get confused when people say "look after yourself" and advise dumping friends in need etc... because I personally would normally help until I drop. Very recently I've not had any spare energy even to help others, which is really odd and never thought I'd feel that. Although I still help others irl given the chance. It get confusing where to draw the line between being taken advantage of, between needing to put yourself first and so on.

It's not a derail btw but I' having trouble understanding the last part of your post. Surely its better t see the truth than a positive-spin version? Otherwise you will just be disappointed. I have had this problem a LOT. Being horribly disappointed or caught off guard because my interpretation and reasurances to myself are too positive.

What sometimes I worry about saying the wrong things when I'm messing up my own life!

Oh god yes, this x10. Sometimes I feel like suggesting suicide pacts or something, literally everything feels so grim there's no light I can shed.

Sorry, thats awful .

I do feel like I have to put on an act to keep anyone in my life - people leave if they know how much pain I'm in. So post here only in desperation. Feels the same with services - like they think I've just wandered in vaguely sad wanting help, they don't realise I am beside myself and not even able to think clearly with the pain and fear,.

Thanks for you message.

I am in manageable not needing to post territory again. I mean, I stil feel shite but able to scrape by. Am behind with OU work so need to not be on here and doing that for a few days...

This is weird/hard too... I think I just need people irl I can talk to or have a hug or whatever if it's bad (it helped in the past when I did). Cos posting on here in desperation sets a whole thread in motion, that involves loads of explaining, then several days later gets helpful with people being supportive. If it was people I knew irl the supportive bit would happen when needed, and in fact I could chat to peple before it got so horrific in the first place! An wouldn't involve explanations more than "the memories are bad atm".

But then I've come full circle and actually the consensus is I can't expect people to care and need to be fine alone... argh.

Sorry to hear that things went weird at the end of therapy, that must have been extremely difficult especially as you sourced it privately. I find the skills based training not very helpful. I have managed to get my unhelpful coping strategies (destructive/ risky/ challenging behaviour they would call it) under control. I can manage day to day but periodically keep hitting crisis because deep down I still have a great deal of pain. I am waiting to have psychodynamic therapy on the NHS. I am not going to be given it until my children are older as they said I'm too high risk whilst they are young! I'm not sure how to hold it together in the meantime. I wonder if this type of therapy is something you could consider? Ask for?

I'm so sorry you find yourself in such deep pain, its fucking horrible and I really do empathize. I hope you find the strength and resilience to keep going.

howcani I have managed to get my unhelpful coping strategies (destructive/ risky/ challenging behaviour they would call it) under control. I can manage day to day but periodically keep hitting crisis because deep down I still have a great deal of pain.

This is the problem exactly. They just want to make sure people aren't obviously struggling. I spent my childhood being taught not to show emotion or have any needs I don't need more of it! And there are many in our position - whether they've needed skills training or not, just holding it together but the underlying problems are still there.

It maks me feel so angry, actually - people turn to them in great need and are treated like they shouldn't make a fuss. Doesn't actually sort out the problem.

I wrote a massive essay reply to this, have deleted it and stuck in on my old blog instead. Think writing there will help.

I'm glad you're going to get psychotherapy in the end. The "too high risk" thing is ridiculous. Services should be funded properly so they can actually support people through therapy ASAP. No point letting problems become more entrenched.

I don't know if it's even possible to get psychodynamic therapy round here anymore. Certainly they won't let me have it - it has to go through the CMHT and they won't see me at all.

Thanks for your reply, I'm sorry they are messing you around too. It sounds like you are doing really well to cope differently in crisis. I hope things look up for you x

I'm really frightened. People seem to have it in for me, unless I can please them. As evidence by my thread here, people seem to twist things I say and make stuff up in their heads about me. Eg. the nasty posts on here were full of factual errors and stuff I'd explained/described was twisted to make the whole situation sound different. This happened to me so much in MH services and other stuff when I ws young, I'm so scared and feel so vulnerable and like the only way to be safe is to die. And then the next poster, rather than assuming the post must have been unpleasant and reported by someone, instead asumed I reported it and got it deleted because Im overreacting rather than the post being really nasty. Evrything seems to get twisted round to blame me and I then feel like i'm on the defensive, why can't I say "that person was being cruel and malicious" and be believed? Why do people pick on me to hurt and then be nice to others? (once someone didnt relise someone else was watching and the person watching was so shocked)

I'm so scared because I don't understand why people misunderstand me and get angry or hurt me and I can't stop them, the more I explain the more cross they get or they just won't listen. Stuff in MH services is the worst because others don't believe me because they don't believe how badly i've been treated. Esp. pre 2007 - the staff were nasty to my face, telling me I was wasting their time, I needed to gorw up and stop being silly, I was an attention seeker. They took my friends to one side and said things that made my friends leave me. Its horrific. People dont believe what happened. I have to keepit inside... dont know why back then I wasn't allowed to be sad like others, it was seen as misbehving to be sad. Same when I was a child and teen. I feel so alone. Im sorry.

I don't know the history of your threads on here, Element. But you have had some lovely, understanding responses here, such as those from howcanI who has loads of experience if MH services. Can you re-read those and focus on them?

Element, I have so much sympathy for you but here we are again. Your threads are always the same and go the same way.

Every couple of weeks you post essentially the same post and then get upset when people don't give you the response you want or reference things that you yourself said on your many other threads.

That's why people suggest that these threads aren't helpful. I've said it many times under different NNs and so have others.

Nobody has it in for you, posters here have tried to help and advise and that's never that helpful so people have become frustrated. And sometimes you've reacted in such a way that is not fair or appropriate which leads to people reacting negatively and you then get upset and say people have no compassion and are bullying you or whatever.

People aren't twisting things about you - they remember things you've said yourself but often over time, you do develop a different narrative or perspective which always concludes that people are mean/not listening/misinterpreting you. It always comes down to you having no part in things that have happened.

And that's why a previous poster is right that you're stuck in the victim/abuser/rescuer cycle on these threads. You post as an extremely distressed woman (which you are) who can't do x/y/z and has been let down and people take that at face value and respond until they get to the point over several posts or even whole threads where everything that's been suggested isn't right or can't happen so they get frustrated and you then say you're treated differently, a particular victim of lack of compassion or criticism.

So you start another thread and some lovely 'rescuers' who aren't that familiar with your threads come along to help and you're really appreciative because they understand and care - till the next post or thread where they ask if you've taken x advice or tried x that was suggested; and you say they're not reading your OPs properly or suggesting things you know won't work or you can't do.

MH services have told you that they think whatever they can offer will disappoint you. I think these regular threads on MN always disappoint you too - they always go the way mentioned in your post at 14.23. With you feeling let down or bullied or not treated how you want to be.

Element, love. I really think these threads are damaging to you - you cannot get what you need here and they just seem to reinforce your negative views of yourself and the world.

Element I am so sorry you are feeling so frightened and misunderstood. I don't know anything of your previous posts but I'm not sure it is really important at the moment. What I read is someone who is very distressed and who needs space to be listened to and validated. Sometimes people who are very well meaning try to give advise when actually what would be most helpful would just be to listen. I see you reaching out yo be rescued but who wouldn't in those circumstances, who wouldn't want rescuing.

I don't think its for anyone else to decide whether this or other thread are helpful, that is up to you. What needs are you wanting to get met and is it doing that? That's up to you to think about. I post in crisis sometimes as it opens a valve for me and lets a bit of steam out. I try not to get frustrated will well meaning but totally inappropriate advice because the average person has little understanding of how complex the issues are. I wonder if you are able to pick and choose what you respond to and discard things that are not helpful.

I hope you have had a reasonable day today. I really hope you get the care and support that everyone deserves when so distressed and can unload some of the huge burden you carry.

howcani is right - element needs to be heard and validated, not well-meaning advice.
And definitely not lecturing and berating. I think Nana crossed a line. MN don't delete posts just because the OP or anyone reports them. They have to contravene guidelines.

But sorry, rehash - moving on.

How has today been element lovely?

I'm not sure what to say, tbh. I've been on your threads and it must be so dispiriting to never get what you're looking for. I don't know whereabouts you live, but if you're down South I'd gladly have coffee

Do people honestly think that posters on MN aren't listening or are being mean specifically towards element on a board which is hugely sympathetic to women; particularly women who are struggling with their MH?

OP wants to be heard and validated and it has happened again and again. Being heard and validated is only useful to a point but when repeatedly ignored it is a way to avoid solving problems.

Element, you have been hugely supported on these boards. Far more than any other individual poster I've seen.

You have been heard and validated repeatedly. It is; and never will be enough to help you to move into action.

You have been listened to and supported on numerous occasions as you have new posts every couple of weeks.

You present a relatively simple 'I need help and the world (friends, MH services) don't care'. Same as you think MN doesn't care.

You are in distress and I sympathise. But in your own words on your threads your old GP ' just read on the computer you were BPD' and suddenly people arrived and you were struck off the GP surgery and banned from registering with any GP in the area for 'violence' that apparently didn't occur.

Same as the Police criminalised you and prosecuted you for an offence/s that you think they wouldn't have if you were someone else. So I'm guessing I think that was made up too?

Same as you didn't present to MH services with any problems but said on previous threads you were repeatedly presented to A and E by the Police.

It's not always people being against you lovey.

And your threads on MN end the same. You always feel upset and/or let down or persecuted.

Started, I am genuinely taken aback by yours posts. You say you are sympathetic but your tone is almost aggressive. You seem annoyed at element that she isn't any better and almost accusatory that she has needed a lot of support here. I'm confused, are you suggesting that there is only so much listening a person os entitled too. How much is that before they are supposed to be better. Do you really think blaming element for still being in such a state of distress is helpful? Can you imagine what reading your posts feels like when your self esteem is shattered already. People with a diagnosis of pd are often complex, even with intensive support from well trained clinicians it can take years to make progress. You seem cross that several suggestions from well meaning strangers haven't fixed this problem and that is somehow elements fault. This is utterly bonkers.

Element I hope you are doing ok. There are people out there, online and in real life who are comfortable just listening and sitting with the distress for as long as it takes. I really hope you find the support to help you move forward.

howcani said what I would've, but puts it much better.
Yes I think some people feel that offering any kind of support to someone entitles them to that person feeling better 😕

And starred said what I would have but puts it much better

just as an aside, there are almost as many men in my BPD support group as women. I don't feel as if I'm the new Hysterical.

starred, costa genuinely - why do you still engage on element's threads?
I imagine you tried hard to help in the past and got frustrated, so why not just leave her threads be now?
To throw past events back in her face seems cruel and unnecessary.
Anyone who is currently wanting to help can see past threads and make their own decision whether to post or not.
element I'm sorry to write about you in the third person on your own thread - I just couldn't think of another way to phrase it

starred I should have said, your version of past events. The way you have described past incidents, especially if inaccurate, could be very triggering and invalidating.

I think to be fair to costa ,starred and many of the other posters (including me) who are being criticised; we've all done the one thing that element says she wants people to do; we've read all of her threads from the beginning.

We've seen how stories told in the original threads have changed over time to meet element's narrative of victim hood. We've seen endless people try and fail to help. That is why they are saying that posting here isn't helping and may actually be making things worse.

I think this is one of her first threads. It's almost identical to this one over a year later.

In this early thread her Therapist is good, but therapy was grinding to a halt in her own words as element wasn't coping. She shouted at the therapist down the phone for the first time. The therapist - again in elements own words on a later thread - stopped the sessions when element again shouted at or threatened her again. She has since been rebranded by element as someone who was crap and unprofessional and the people who don't know the whole story, buy into it.

This is one example of how the narrative has changed. I've also seen in the OPs own words that she was forcibly removed from the GP surgery after the GP pressed the panic button - but the OP couldn't understand why as she'd done nothing wrong. This makes no sense. How professionals were able to say one thing to the OPs friends, for them to drop her completely. This makes no sense. Short of "she's a murdering paedophile" which would be a ridiculous thing to say, I can't think of anything that someone could say to my friends to make them all drop me just like that.

There have been many other posts about how friends, HCP's, police and so on have turned against her when she has done nothing to deserve it or because of something someone else has said and never because of anything she may have done.

I've seen poster after poster offer endless advice, support and validation, but none of it helps.

What would help, seriously, really and truly help would be if element started to genuinely look back at those events to try an d see where her own actions may have influenced the situation and what she could do moving forward to try and change how she responds and reacts to people as that is what will enable her to move on and start to build relationships again.

So yes, to the people who are criticising the PPs who are trying to in a way you are all quite right. There is no reason at all why the OP can't post the same thing with the same outcome over and over again. It's just a shame that she has been doing now for over a year and nothing whatsoever has changed as the one thing she could positively do to effect change will never happen while she is unable to look at herself and her actions as above, and there are endless people buying into her narrative of victim hood and attacking the other posters that draw attention to it and try to guide her towards something that may actually help.

It's never going to go down well to accuse someone of playing victim, even if it's true.

And I find myself once again wondering why I am bothering to post and engage again when it will only result in my being called a bully and someone who likes to pick on the vulnerable, when nothing could be further than the truth.

But the fact is that I feel desperately sorry for the OP as she's clearly stuck in this rut and way of thinking and I can see it's hurting her. I would love to be able to see her be able to move on. Reinforcing her way of thinking won't help this happen.

It's heartbreaking.

But Keema, the issue is the way the OP has been addressed. She's clearly very distressed.

keema honestly, you may feel desperately sorry for element but how can what you have posted above possibly be helpful? Why not just disengage?

She is, and on every thread she gets more and more distressed as it goes on

Which is why those of us who have been around from the beginning can see it happen again and again, as people who aren't familiar with the back story, engage and sympathise, then give 'wrong' advice, and it goes downhill from there

We're not bullying or picking on the op, we're trying to stop the cycle. These threads are not helping her at all

costa It is not your responsibility to 'stop the cycle'.
Once you have suggested to element that in your view her threads are not helping her then why not just leave her be?
Newer posters can search old threads if they want. None of us are obliged to get involved.

Fine I'll just fuck off then and not give a shit