I dont know what to do and its all getting worse

[elementofsurprise]

I dont think i'm supposed to need help, I mean, I can't expect people to care or be there for me. But I'm not coping alone so I'm unsure what to do now. I keep trying to tell myself it'll all be ok and just keep pressing on, but in reality im spending more and more time just weeping and barely leaving flat and my world is so restricted and everyting just seems harder and harder. I feel like im completely spearate from others, like we speak a different language or something. I dont know how to ask for help or who to ask. My local MH services are very very overstretched and don't offer longterm therapy etc, im not an imminent danger to myself or others which is all they cover. Yet my problems are complex and disabling so the primary care team wont see me either as also dont meet their remit.

For years I've not had proper friends, just people I know, well maybe proper friends in some ways but all misfits like me. That sounds nasty, its not meant to, I just mean not people I can rely on or massively similar etc. And mainly just people I hung out with rather than proper friends. Bit of a studently feel to it, if that makes sense - I felt quite dfferent because i'd mastered stuff like housework . I have loads of aqauintances who are more simiar to me in other ways but because i'm unemployed and perceived as 'mental' I don't fit in. My marginalisation and lonliness has made me weirder, too. I barely see anyone now, the odd social event but apart from that just one person who pops in to see me. I can do socialising, i'm good at parties and things at chatting to people, I just cant seem to make proper friends and as get older is harder. But that is not the point of my post, just explaining why I cant turn to anyone. Although I shouldn anyway.

I want to give up. Im so frightened. Im not suicidal exactly but Im scred im going to go properly mad, or already starting. Im doing Open Uni and focussing on that but finding concentration so hard. Getting more anxious and shaky. Keep just crying. I just do not know what to do after trying so hard with evetything for so long. Open uni seemed like a good idea but it means i go out even less as getting the work done. Anything I try to do to make things better just seems another mountin to climb and means i have to give up something else. I'm less capable by the day. I feel completely overhlemed with the horror and pain that has been my life, I feel sick with the mess of it all despite always trying so hard. I dont even know how to ask for help anymore because if I see anyone I automatically cover it all up. Not completely sucessfully, I tend to just seem a bit dozy instead of sad.

I have a GP appt tomorrow but its to discuss referral to CMHT he made. They have asked him not to refer me again, so I expect they've rejected it. Even if they havent they are convinced I have BPD. If I do, I dont present with it typically. All their focus is on getting me to act the part and not ask for any help (I dont self harm or anything). They see me not being in touch as a success, the pressure to just keep quiet and please them is immense. I cant tell anyone how it feels inside and if I do they dont listen, or think it's attention seeking or something. I just can't get them to take any notice of or help with the problems I actually have.

Im so sorry, I just dont know what to do. I dont know what I'm supposed to think, whether Im suppsoed to need help or what to do either way. Im so sorry.

I feel like im supposed to know all the answers and magically be fine.

If i knew what I needed I'd go out and sort it, not post here. I posted here in desperation. Frankly i suspect there is nothing that can make me better, but my goodness having support helps. But then apparently im not allowed that irl or on here. I dont even know if its wrong to need it. So back to square on with not knwing what i need or what to do.

You can interpret my post how you want but what I said was - I don't think posting here is helpful because you get more distressed as the threads go on - and you are getting more distressed, this is always what happens because mumsnetters are not qualified to help - what we can offer obviously isn't enough and isn't what you want

Have some fucking compassion.

Totally unnecessary and offensive - do not swear at me again

Hello

I'm sorry you're struggling at them moment. It sounds like a tough situation.
I'm quite new here and haven't seen your previous threads, so forgive me if I've missed something or if I'm suggesting something someone else already has.

I know you said you haven't refused DBT, so I was wondering would you consider giving it another go? I know you said that the way they do it where you are is unhelpful, but could you try it again? I ask this because several years ago I did a course of CBT. I suspect there may have been a clash of personalities as found it completely unhelpful and didn't 'gel' with the therapist and felt that they were patronising and I ended up just sorting things myself.
About 4 years ago, I got in a bit of a mess again and was very reluctant to try CBT again as I genuinely didn't think there was anything I could gain from it as I had learnt a lot of the techniques before. However I agreed to try it, mostly just so that it looked like I was making an effort to help myself and I thought if it didn't work at least I could go back to my GP and say I had given it a proper go. I started CBT again and found the experience completely different the second time. I saw a different therapist and at no point did I feel patronised and although I did cover some of the stuff I had done before and bits I felt were not relevant to me (I just had to smile and nod and go along with these bits) I found that there were still bits I could learn from and it helped me more than I had ever imagined it could.

Also, and I'm sorry if you've already mentioned this, but are you on any medication? If you're not could you ask your GP for some to help you out? I had a friend who was refused therapy as they were too up and down at that time. They went back to their GP, got settled on mediation and then went back to therapy.

Again, I'm sorry if I've misinterpreted your posts, but you said you're looking for some support. Can you tell us a bit more about what sort of support you would like or what you would like to happen now? Then someone might be able to sign post you in the right direction.

danger eventually intrusive memories and nightmares will pass.

That's good. So, time then I guess? I find they come in waves a bit, so a whole new batch will arrive that I've not thought of since they happened. Did you find this, or was yours more to do with a specific event? I have wondered if my brain's working through everything a bit at time.

With the isolating self bit, what I was trying to explain was that it's not just me deciding I cant face going out or something. Its mainly that the opportunities just aren't there like before (used to know a communal bunch and we'd be in each others homes a lot, just hanging out but times change). So its not just a case of picking up what I used to do. Also OU stuff is an example of where taking something on means something else misses out - because people otherwise seem to assume I need to 'do more' and dont realise the tradeoff that happens! (this is one area that makes me suspect ASD). I've been making steps to improve my life for as long as I can remember... I grew up feeling horrendous so always constantly tried to make things better. I try to look on the bright side with what I have achieved, I have learnt DIY and done other stuff over last few years, but sometimes it hits me how far off 'normal' coping Iam, and is so frustrating when I dont seem to be getting any better, just treading water.

Suggestions are good if they have taken into account what I've written so far...
Although mainly I guess it would just be nice not to feel so alone with it. Its especially hard with stuff i've experienced that others are unlikely to believe and are kind of unusual (eg stuff to do with services, or relating to the lack of help that people expect you'd get in certain situations). Theres some stuff I havent dared write about here in case I get sneered at and disbelieved even more. I wish I could tell someone the memeories and not have to keep them inside, makes it seem like a shameful secret.

element really.

Please read your posts, then take some time and read through posts on other threads that people have written.

Has anyone else reacted like you have? What are the differences between other people's posts/threads and your own? Apart from we're all picking on you etc etc…although we're saying exactly the same thing to you and everyone else.

You'll have to excuse if you have to repeat yourself. As I said, and others too, we have MH problems ourselves. Reading/remembering stuff is a particular problem of mine but I try and offer support despite this. I can't work because of precisely this problem. And I'm not unique in having this problem.

I did mention, if you remember, that if support for you is simply having people to listen I'm sure that would be fine. But that has been interpreted as that we expect you to know what would be helpful…and that you posted here in desperation.

As I said, my brain is a bit 'meh' at present but to clarify:

• you don't want people to simply listen
• you don't want people to offer advice

So that leaves us with….nothing...

aha now you've said something that I can work with. Good! wait a minute….

Element, I posted (under a different name) about a year ago, trying to help you, and opening up quite a lot about my past experiences. You were extremely dismissive - that I didn't understand what you were talking about etc - and I felt pretty hurt and also irritated that I had wasted my energies trying to say something that came from my own long experiences of services and having an enduring mental health problem.

I assume Nana is wondering why you never try to reach out and help others with their problems. The majority of people on this board, I would assume, have some sort of mental health problem and find some sustenance from supporting others as well as gaining support. It is give and take in a community - online or physical - that allows it to survive. We all need to contribute in order to feel happy.

If you stopped fighting all comments automatically and took a bit of time to consider their usefulness, you might find that Nina had a point. If you addressed other posters, on their threads, and offered support, you might find it gave you some satisfaction.

Yes, I did find that things kept coming. The 'therapy' was like opening some awful Pandoras box. Things kept coming, and coming. It was awful. I thought it would never, ever end. Bit it did. My 'thing' was years of stuff. I think that what you said is true, that your brain works on a bit at a time. It is a whole crock of the deepest shit ever. And then your brain might make up it's own scenarios that didn't happen but it will run on 'themes of a crock of shite' for a while. Things that happened, and things that didn't, but they might have, or they might be completely ridiculous but related to the same thing. But, as I said, eventually, your brain runs out of such stuff and starts on pretty normal things. It will happen. It might take years, and be scary, and frustrating, but it will happen.

BTW I kept those memories to myself (life threatening stuff). It was enough for someone to know that I'd had a crap night, being back in crap stuff like it was actually happening. And…it still stopped. Sometimes people don't need to know the details…just that you're finding it hard. Well, I find that at least, might be different for other people...

Element, it seems you may have a set of ideal scenarios of how life should be that keep playing in your head like movies. And then you think your life doesn't match up to that. You say things like this "how far off 'normal' coping I am" , yet what you describe about your life does seem close to normal coping, so that makes me wonder. Have you expectations in your head of what your mind has decided is a perfect kind of life? And when you think of these, your mind starts going back over all the 'if onlys'.
If only I could get the right treatment, if only someone would listen to me....things would be so different. If things would be so different for you in a better way, could you describe what that would look like?

Do you think it would be helpful if you had somewhere you could talk to someone anonymously about these situations and experiences?
Would somewhere like here help?

www.thesite.org/mental-health/mental-health-treatments/online-counselling-5842.html.

Thie website is aimed at 25s and under and I don't know how old you are, but even if you are over 25 I'm wondering if some of the sites they mention may be of use to you?

Teapot Unfortunately they just wont let me have DBT either. My previous care-coordinator was apparently supposed to go over "DBT techniques" with me - they wouldnt actually enrol me in a DBT course and do it properly. She said that my main presenting issue was depression and seemed to agree with my reservations about DBT in my particular situation. However, I was just discharged as unsuitabe for their services. I found it a bit weird, as she never actually said "right, this week we're going to look at DBT skill X..." Instead she would ask how I was since the last appt., and we'd have a chat.

I reckon there could be some helpful stuff in DBT (see below for the sort of thought processess I think it might help with!) but am dubious about the way it's delievered locally. I'd also love to just see what it's like as I have read and heard such varying views on it, and am interested in BPD as a concept and psychology and... yeh. But the stuff it doesn't address is what I struggle with mainly so would like to address that. Perhaps it just takes time. Dammit .

I'd just really like someone to understand and not be cross with me for being in pain.

costa I dont know whether I should apologise or not. My natural inclination is to apologise and grovel and do anything not to annoy anyone because I must serve everyone and have no needs in case they are angry with me (etc etc dodgy thought proceses).

But then I also think if someone is clearly upset and not really holding it together, they have a much lower frustration threshold and will likely snap at others being insensitive. Certainly I would be understanding if someone snapped at me when in huge pain and at the end of their rope.

Although they would probably apologise later on, but without me asking, so... er...??
But also, I do want to be nice and people to get on and my main bugbear is being misunderstood (drives me wild) rather than beig angry per se i'm just frustrated. Plus I have no idea what you are dealing with right now so the rules may apply all round. So, sorry for swearing at you.

I just wrote all that out to show the sort of thought processess that tie me up in knots sometimes.

FWIW as I have mentioned private therapist on this thread... I would have apologised to her for snapping too, give the chance. Really I suppose I should have expressed my frustrations earlier but I kept telling myself it was me or all in my head and not wanting to rock the boat.

Thank you

I live with constant physical pain and mobility problems, and am often bedridden, however I don't tell people to have 'fucking compassion' I guess we all deal with things differently

Anyway, I'm out, I wish you well

danger As I said, my brain is a bit 'meh' at present but to clarify:
- you don't want people to simply listen
- you don't want people to offer advice

Erm... no...
People offering advice is fine, as long as it takes into account what I've previously written, especially in the OP. So eg. suggesting going back to GP when I've literally just done that and the avenues are closed, is not helpful. Also if their advice is inapproriate for some reason, eg. suggesting I 'do more' and I have to explain that doing more means something else doesn't get done... then that shouldn't be taken as 'rejecting' advice. Because its already something I've tried.

I feel at the end of my rope, hence posting here, so I don't expect others to magic a soultion up. I don't expect anyone to have the answers. But it is possible they may have an idea I'd not thought of, or some inight into how the system works, or have been in a similar position... etc.

And... simply listening is helpful, yes. Well, sort of. The best is if someone really understands what it's like, and/or you are both struggling and being mutually supportive. I find the Samaritans a bit difficult because they are so impartial.

I have been finding myself so pressed for time and struggling to get basic stuff done recently that I haven't been reading threads as much. I have been supportive via pm though. And I support a very unwell person irl (random showing up on doorstep etc after dissociating). I used to want to heal the whole world (well still do) but have got so worn out recently its not happened as much. . It seems a constnt trade off between things I get done. I hate this.

we had this exact conversation last week and people made some really helpful suggestions. have you tried to follow any of them?

danger It was enough for someone to know that I'd had a crap night, being back in crap stuff like it was actually happening.
I guess I feel like I need to justify why I'm so upset and spaced out. I probably shouldn't, though.

sadie You say things like this "how far off 'normal' coping I am" , yet what you describe about your life does seem close to normal coping, so that makes me wonder.
Well, I'm not working atm and haven't for 5.5 years. I find it difficult to get a part time approx 12 hrs a week course done, whilst also doing normal stuff like cooking healthy meals and so on.

I don't have children so the above should be a doddle.

I have to plan things very carefully, and around how I feel. Going to visit family for a few days means a mini-breakdown when I return after forced coping for several days, for example.

OP, I could identify with quite a lot of what you said in your OP.
But one thing I noticed as I read further is that you haven't talked about Nanna and Foxyspook's suggestion of reaching out to help others on their threads (when possible). Is that something you do or would try?
I notice that intense emotional pain can encourage me to become so self-focused. I see that in myself and it really bothers me. I have to make a conscious effort to take others' situations and perspectives into account, and to empathise and try to help. I really liked Nanna's post on this.
I'm wondering if something similar happens with you.

costa No, but if you posted, upset and worn out with it all, and people said "have you tried painkillers?" and then when you explained you'd explored every avenue you coud think of and they just said well why are you posting, then you might be frustrated enough to swear. Especially if you'd had that sort of dismissive attitude all your life.

Anyway, I hope you have a good sleep, and somehow or other some relief from the pain soon.

Argh, I am so slow typing... I see you have now mentioned helping others. I'm sure you meant "heal the whole world" tongue in cheek, but again this is the kind of rigid, black and white thinking I recognise in myself 'I can't heal the world so argh I give up and do nothing.'

AuntyElle I addressed it at 21.00
Feel crap that I cant support others cos I always used to. Got taken advanatge of a lot though. Still do supportothers where I can but as explained so struggling to get anything done and no energy. God this is awful I never though id reach this stage.

exWife suggestions?
I ahve been back toGP, apparently only routes into services are via some primary care hub - i'm rejected at that stage as 'too complex' - and CMHT. Who say no. He has literally just had aother referral turned away.

However he is referring me for ASD assessment. So either way I'll get a proper asessment at last.

I've been pressing on with getting uniwork done, done some gardeing, eaten healthily, etc. Not very well admittedly, but have beenputting in 100% effort despite endometriosis pain losing me a day this week.

Is that ok? This is where I start to paic cos I'v tried my best and im scared its not good enough as should really be out working...

aunty no I didnt mean in tongue-in-cheek . Sometimes i accidentally let my cheesy sounding thoughts slip out. I always felt like it was a sort of calling I sound like a twat. When i am not bogged down in hopeless emotional pain I do still think/hope mybe all this will be worth it one day and I can help people using my experiences. I mean, like I needed to have those experiences to be equipped to help. (spot the religious all-things-happen-for-a-reason unbringing )

When I am in pain enough to post I cant think straight to answer anyone else. I only post in extreme circunstances for me. Sorry thats crap isnt it. I should just not post when im v low. Although i cant help it. Argh.

I actually should go now and read this chapter im supposed to have done... argh... everything seems so overwhelming. Like im either in such pain i dissociate or frantically trying to get the stuff done i was supposed to whilst too upset earlier. Used to be more balanced than this.

Sorry. Thanks for replies.

You mentioned that you are not really sure about the bpd diagnosis? I wonder if you have looked at a more recovery based approach to mental health? I have found it immeasurably helpful to reject the medical model and the labels. I don't have a brain disease or something inherently wrong with my personality, I am a human being and experience distress. We are all on a spectrum and it makes sense that people who have lived through more extreme experiences will have more extreme responses. My difficulties in the context of my life make sense. I was never going to get the support from the NHS when they saw my struggles as 'symptoms' or 'behaviours' of an illness. Have you ever had the space to talk about what has happened to you and have that validated?

You sound exasperated and in pain and I'm not sure how this thread has derailed into a bit of a row but I imagine its unhelpful. Op there is always hope. Things can get better.

OP, I'm actually finding this thread helpful - so genuinely thank you.
I have got into some similar thought patterns to you, but it's so much easier to see when described by someone else. Eg 'when I'm 'better' I can use my experience to help people' whereas actually doing small helpful things now is also valid and possible. Also I can see how some of the things you believe/think are 'right' (as in correct) but actually sound very unhelpful to you. When my therapist said this to me I just didn't get it, I thought I'd rather see the 'truth' than view things through a rose-tinted 'helpful' lens.
I'm rambling and putting this really badly, and sorry if this is veering into a derail.

OP, I'm really sorry that you are suffering so much and haven't found the help you need. Unfortunately I do not have the experience to offer any new ideas or insight.

Well done on the OU work though when life is such a struggle. That so impressive.

I know it must feel like reaching out for help is pointless but for what it's worth I don't think you should give up. For whatever reasons mumsnet threads seem to go wrong for you. I feel bad for you - because you clearly and understandably need to feel people care. It cuts through the loneliness and despair. Despite being lucky enough to be surrounded by family I find myself posting too when feeling desperate.

I'm a bit of a "selfish" poster too! Sometimes it's hard to see beyond your own pain and sometimes I worry about saying the wrong things when I'm messing up my own life!

Have you read the depersonalisation thread? It's not busy but it's kind and caring and somewhere to post thoughts - maybe see if you relate to what others are saying.

Also, I haven't used them but when I looked at resources I found www.7cups.com - free online counselling and the Elefriends community on MIND.

But feel free to ignore all of that and just know that I hear how shit it all is and I'm sorry about that.