Argh FFS - crisis team judgement

[elementofsurprise]

Trying not to completely lose it here. Just had ridiculous conversation with woman from the crisis team. She asked what would help, usual script, I said I thought therapy. Had to explain TWICE that primary care IAPT won't see me ('too complex') and secondary care repeated ignore referrals and have asked my GP not to re-refer because I'll only be disappointed.
For 5.5 years I have been trying to access therapy. Since I broke down. I was almost there once, but services kept getting cut and rearranged.
Explained this to her.
Her response was "Well, if you're not willing to try to access the services..."
ARGHHHHHHHH
Explained again, I keep goingto my GP, he keeps referring, they won't see me.
Response: "If you're just going to get annoyed with me..."
FFS! Am I not entitled to sound just a tad frustrated in this situation?
Managed to remain calm and explained yet again, for 5.5 years I have tried to get therapy so am feeling a bit hopeless now. Understandably, I'd have thought. Apparently I should just keep going back to the GP (even though it makes me feel worse and more hopeless cos GP can't do anything.)
Pointed out definition of madness was doing the same thing gain and again but expecting different results.
Feel hopeless and worthless. Want pain to end. Want to be good enough to be treated nicely and loved. (I thought I was but apparently not from how people treat me. Don't want another thread about that though.)

[exWifebeginsat40]

in my area we have the Access and Assessment pathway which means a CMHT appointment. push your GP. you are entitled to this.

I had CAT therapy after a hospital discharge in 2012. since then I have been offered precisely nothing apart from IAPT.

I know it's a horrible place to be. I do understand. talk to PALS if GP isn't forthcoming.

[elementofsurprise]

costa there was a thread on here a while back, called "lost souls lounge" I think. People there understood. That helped. I recently found a blog written by a carer of someone whos got MH issues, its actually quite darkly humourous, the way they write about the way certain psych staff behave. Its grim reading mainly but again it helps to know im not the only one. A MNer who understands has been in touch and that helps too.

[elementofsurprise]

jaffodil "trouble concentrating, not crying, feeling anxious or afraid or hopeless or worthless, which affects my functioning. "

Oops, see what you mean. Thats supposed to mean "trouble concentrating and trouble not crying", as in I struggle with concentration and fighting back tears.

[jaffodil]

Well why don't you chat to the blogger and your Mumsnet friend? If you're unhappy with all the rest of us, stop asking us for help!

[elementofsurprise]

Thats not very nice jaffodil. Yeh i'll just go away and cry alone, thanks for making me feel so welcome. I didnt know this thred would go so bizarrely, as I mentioned before, i thought there would be people who could empathise nd have been through the same diffuclties with services. I didnt realise people would completly ignore my OP and anything I said.

[elementofsurprise]

Im also confused why you think it's inappropriate to ask for support on a mental health forum, yet fine to message a blogger at random for support?
Maybe I do have AS. Other peoples thought processes make no sense to me, seem very irrational.

[jaffodil]

Actually I spent ages typing out some very long replies, and you responded by being rude and accusing people of not caring. You also patronisingly told me that I hadn't even read your posts, when I'd read them carefully and chosen a response that I felt fit.

I didn't have to waste part of my afternoon trying to help you. I chose to because I cared, and had it thrown back in my face.

Not once did I tell you to "go away and cry", I told you to speak to the friends you actually have a kind word to say about.

How do you think it feels to honestly try your best to help someone, only to be criticised and demonised? It's not a "nice" feeling. There are people in the world besides you with emotions.

[jaffodil]

Accusing other people of being irrational really is the cherry on the cake!!!

[loveyoulikeaplanet]

Okay element - going on what you say on all of your threads. You can't get help, there's no point in complaining. You 'know' DBT and that wouldn't help. MIND/Samaritans can't help/don't suit you.

What do you want from these threads?. Someone to listen and care?. You're getting it. People are listening and caring even if you often don't like how they do it (offering opinions and advice).

Someone to say 'it's shit'?. You get it. It is shit element. I hate that a relatively young woman lives every day feeling like you do. I hate that you feel paralysed into inactivity by your MH problems. I hate that people have hurt you, including those who should have made you feel better or tried to help you. I hate that you feel that the world has treated you badly and that because of that, you feel you have no control over how you feel. I hate that you're in pain.

So many posters on your threads feel the same I'm sure. If I had a magic wand, I'd wave it and make it different. But I don't. No-one on MN or in RL can do that.

The nature of people is that they try to offer advice. MN is no different. You won't get unconditional 'hugs' or caring without end. So many posters have given that but have seen it hasn't helped because very soon there's another thread where you feel just as angry and distressed and desperate as on your previous threads.

So it hasn't helped. So people offer more advice which is rejected. Then they get frustrated and blunt. And you repeat the same 'people aren't listening, I can't do that'. And that reinforces your core negative beliefs that you're treated badly or differently and people don't care. And I don't think that's true at all.

You are a very bright and often funny woman. On threads not associated with you and your life I see your name and think 'is this really element?'. So there are so many great qualities you have that you can't see.

And that's why I am asking what you want from these threads? Do you think they are helpful?. I only see the merry go round that always seem to distress you further.

[elementofsurprise]

Also apparetnyl 75% of people with mental health problems don't get any treatment. I thought it was fairly well known in these circles how underfunded and overstretched services are. So it seems odd people dont seem to believe I cant get any help. I wonder if you're more likely to get hep if you have children (ie. they'd see it as helping the children too) so people on here are much more likely to get help, and at a less severe level of impairment? So don't believe I can't.

[jaffodil]

You are now being incredibly offensive. To imply that people on mumsnet with mental health problems are "less impaired" than you and only receiving support because they have children, is hideous.

[jaffodil]

The sheer level of mental gymnastics you employ you avoid seeing any kind of truth about yourself is worthy of an Olympic medal, and I am not engaging any longer. You owe the other mumsnetters with MH problems a serious apology for your remarks.

[exWifebeginsat40]

oh. no, I don't get special treatment as a mother. I don't think comparing levels of 'impairment' will help you, OP.

I haven't minimised your feelings. please don't minimise the challenges I face.

you can talk to MIND, or PALS, or use an advocate. unfortunately, you know how stretched services are so really these are your options. if you are unable to keep yourself safe, call 111 or go to A&E.

[exWifebeginsat40]

the psychiatrist I saw last month was the same psych that gave me my BPD diagnosis and discharged me 2 years ago. in my mind she was a monster, and hated me, and wanted me to be ill and hurting myself.

she couldn't have been more professional or helpful this time. I literally spent the week before the appointment telling myself to give it a fair chance and I was terrified.

as Lucy said, once I stopped fighting and insisting I was being picked on and singled out, things began to go more smoothly. there really is no point in me arguing and insisting I know best - I don't, because I am mentally ill and I have a personality disorder.

[elementofsurprise]

jaffodil How do you think it feels to reach out for help, only to be criticised and demonised?
And I mentioned a supportive thre on this very forum - yet you think i shouldnt post here?
I appreciate you trying to help, but you seem to interpret stuff i've written weirdly.

Im serious about the AS thing. Im scared I have it because I do find peoples actions odd, espeically social behaviours. People have weird loyalties and stuff. I hate the social hierarchy. I dont understand a lot of things.

loveyou

Right well why didnt posters just say "its shit" at the start? Why did they keep offering advice that was clealy inappropriate? of course i am going to be frustrated if people advise something that is clearly unhelpful. Youre telling me they get frustrated cos im rejecting their advice - im not rejecting it, it stuff ive tried already. Why arent i allowed to be frustrated that theyve advised something obiosuly unehlpful if theyd read the post? How many times do i have to spell it out? The sevices wont help me, so any advice to go get help from them is unhelpful nd frustrating! I does help when people empathise and especially if theyve had similar experiences. So why doesnt this happen? Why do people make posts tht fail to take it anything i've written?

Im also confused about comment about control over how you feel. I use to bottle everything up and try to feel fine, it was almost hyperatively weird. After years of bottling it all up, i broke. So i cant control the pain, no. I just have to live with it. And im worn out with it nd would like a hug. I dont know why people keep mentioning uncnditional caring without end etc. Im not asking for that, im asking to be allowed to be sad or have a hug or whatever without being criticsed or expected to hide it all. To not have to feel like my issues and my past is a shameful secret to be hidden and never alluded to. Just to say "Oh, today was hard, the memories are very bad" and have someone say "im sorry to hear that" and a hug and then chat abut normal things. Im not asking for the world. And i thought people on here would uderstand and have had similar experiences.

[exWifebeginsat40]

I have had similar experiences with the mental health services. I'm not going into my past on here; safe to say I had an appalling childhood. I'm an alcoholic (2 years sober this month) and I lost everything before I stopped, including my DD who went to live with her dad as she couldn't cope.

I know guilt, and shame, and fear and anxiety and anger and self-loathing and all those bad things that keep me awake at night.

anger will hurt you. just let go. do the next thing - look into advocacy, or contact PALS. tilting at windmills will keep you exactly where you are.

[elementofsurprise]

jaffodil To imply that people on mumsnet with mental health problems are "less impaired" than you and only receiving support because they have children, is hideous.
I didnt say they were less impaired than me. Stop demonising me. I just wonder if having children is seen - quite understandaby - as something that prioritises someone for support. So someone with equal level of impairment might not get help because the services are so overstretched they have to prioritise somehow.
Its not saying anyone here doesnt deserve help, just that they might be more likely to get the actual help they need because of services being so stretched they have to pick and choose who to help.

[exWifebeginsat40]

their priority is keeping people alive. no more, no less.

[elementofsurprise]

exWife but i have kept going back and giving them a fair chance. They just decide not to take me on every time. nd last assessment she actually lied and I was confused and tried to clarify and got fobbed off. I've written about it on this thread. I've kept trying and kept being disappointed by them.
So I stopped asking for help and tried to be ok alone. So I did try a different approach. But i am very alone and sometimes need some encouragement and support.
Im sorry you felt i was minimising your experiences - i really didnt mean it to come acorss like that.


Lucsy I've tried asking to find out how to get help. But the CMHT wont speak to you unless your on their books. I've been to PALS, wit the same query. All I get, ad infinitum, is "go back to your GP". They just keep telling me to go to the GP and get referred and when I point out tht doesnt work and they ignore the referrals, they get annoyed. (Like in my OP and this thread...) I cant seem to get hold of anyone who can actually tell me how to get through the system, except this trainee psychologist i met last week socially who's advice was "don't bother, go private"!

[elementofsurprise]

exWife their priority is keeping people alive. no more, no less.
Sigh. I suspected this myself. So being massivey impaired in day-to-day life and severely depressed doesn't attract any help unless you're actually suicidal.
As the NHS only do stage one DBT, focussing on reducing self harm etc., it strikes me that they are just trying to get people to be quietly despairing in a physically safe way so they can discharge them!

[elementofsurprise]

Thanks everyone. I basically get from this that I cant get help from services, if even PALS are going to give me the "go back to GP" line every time.
I'm not really supposed to need support from others, so should keep it to myself.
I dont think I can survive like this without things getting really bad. I'll just hide gain until the pain is enough to weaken my resolve not to tell anyone or ask for support. Or until worse happens, I have been thinking the dark thoughts recently it does seem the only way. I dont want my pets to loe their mummy though. God im shit. Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[elementofsurprise]

im going to go, this is making me feel very weird

[loveyoulikeaplanet]

Element - people do say 'it's shit' all the time on your threads.

And they say it until they've said it so much and it doesn't make a difference so they try to help you move on to living your life and you get upset/angry and you react negatively and suggest that people are bullying you or aren't suffering as much as you/have some life addition like children which enhances their access to services or compassion. Which is untrue and upsets other people.

There are people in the exact position that you are on this thread. They're telling you its shit, that they've been in pain or are still in pain. They're telling you a diagnosis of BPD can lead to discrimination. They're telling you MH services haven't been helpful sometimes.

They're also telling you what helped them. And you say you've tried it or it wouldn't help. And you're increasingly annoyed that they're suggesting it.

Element - listen to Lucys. As long as you keep saying 'it won't work, I can't..., I know...' in negative ways then you are not going to benefit from any kind of intervention and that may be why people don't consider that you would benefit from MH intervention.

To really engage in therapy you have to be able to say 'my view and the way I'm managing things isn't working because I feel shit all of the time'. So what I think isn't working so I'll give X a go with an open mind and if that doesn't help, I'll give it my best and ask what's next that might help.

And sometimes the way I react to situations or people is because of my ingrained and distorted views of the world and it's not my fault (due to early life experiences) that I think that or respond in that way but I'm able to see that is my reaction and not always the intent of the other person or the reality of the situation and I'm open to looking at why and how I come to that conclusion and I want help to understand and change that.

Right now, you're not really asking for help. You're wanting a very specific kind of response from an individual/therapy which may not be available and more importantly - may not be helpful for you in the long term.