Argh FFS - crisis team judgement

[elementofsurprise]

Trying not to completely lose it here. Just had ridiculous conversation with woman from the crisis team. She asked what would help, usual script, I said I thought therapy. Had to explain TWICE that primary care IAPT won't see me ('too complex') and secondary care repeated ignore referrals and have asked my GP not to re-refer because I'll only be disappointed.

For 5.5 years I have been trying to access therapy. Since I broke down. I was almost there once, but services kept getting cut and rearranged.

Explained this to her.

Her response was "Well, if you're not willing to try to access the services..."
ARGHHHHHHHH
Explained again, I keep goingto my GP, he keeps referring, they won't see me.

Response: "If you're just going to get annoyed with me..."
FFS! Am I not entitled to sound just a tad frustrated in this situation?

Managed to remain calm and explained yet again, for 5.5 years I have tried to get therapy so am feeling a bit hopeless now. Understandably, I'd have thought. Apparently I should just keep going back to the GP (even though it makes me feel worse and more hopeless cos GP can't do anything.)
Pointed out definition of madness was doing the same thing gain and again but expecting different results.

Feel hopeless and worthless. Want pain to end. Want to be good enough to be treated nicely and loved. (I thought I was but apparently not from how people treat me. Don't want another thread about that though.)

It sounds very much as though you have been bounced between primary care and secondary care like a pinball, with no one, including the GP, really prepared to take responsibility for getting you suitable treatment.

It seems to me that everyone now has an entrenched position they aren't going to change. All you can do is try and appeal to someone higher up to force a reevaluation.

Apologies if you have gone through all this already, but:- Citizens' Advice or PALS is probably the best starting point, or a letter of complaint sent directly to your Clinical Care Commissioning Group (see if yours has a patient liaison service, some do). Have you tried your local NHS Complaints Advocacy Service?

Whichever you choose, I think you will have to talk pretty tough and say you will seek judicial review of the continuing refusal to treat you if you have to.

On the other hand, if you can afford it, you could preface all of this by seeing a consultant privately who can assess your needs, then try CMHS to see if they will finally provide what has been recommended.

Costa it was element. She posted that she was annoyed that the therapist got this muddled up and couldn't remember everything she's been told so she shouted and swore at them and that's why it ended.

She wasn't listening to op, I mean really hearing you.

What she should have said is ' that's bloody outrageous. I'm gonna get to the bottom of it and help you get sorted. This can't go on'

You need an advocate not some one who is going act shocked your getting pissed off on this horrible merry go round.

What you do about it love I don't know. I don't know anything about MH help now (did when I was younger as my mother had serous MH issues) but j didn't want to read your post and run. I'd be pretty much getting stabby if I was having that conversation with that woman in your situation

You need some one that's going to fight your corner.

OP, you mentioned being recommended for DBT, do you mind my asking if you have been diagnosed with a personality disorder? I ask because DBT can often be used for PDs, and patients with PDs can get bounced between services as it can be very difficult to provide appropriate and helpful therapy, and in some areas there isn't provision for therapy for PDs. I'm wondering whether this may be the difficulty you are facing in accessing therapy.

I've seen your threads a few times. You need some real life help like an advocacy service or going to pals to put in an complaint to get things sorted.

What do you want from mumsnet? Do you just want to sound off on here or do you want some advice?

The fact that you were talking to the Crisis Team means that someone will have referred you to them. You getting angry and frustrated with the person you were speaking to - no matter how reasonable you think you were being - means that they will be limited to what they can do to help you. In that way you DID block your own access to possible support.

I'm with some PPs. I've read all of your threads and have posted before on some of them under a different name. You are always selective about what you post, making sure to leave out anything that would highlight how your behaviour may have influenced the behaviour of people towards you in any way shape or form. Your thread about how your private psychologist had to stop seeing you due to your aggression being one of the most revealing of your previous posts. That was all her fault in your eyes - with you seemingly being blind to what you may have contributed to that situation yourself.

You are never open to self introspection or exploring how your own behaviour impacts your care and you get aggressive, argumentative and unpleasant to anyone who doesn't follow the script you have in your head about how you are the victim of endless useless healthcare professionals, rather than having any influence at all over the way you behave.

I know how stretched the services are and how difficult it can be to access care, crisis services, psychology and all of the rest, but in your case, based on all of the threads you've posted over the past year or so, I think you play your own part in what goes on and could really do with looking into that.

You say now you want therapy, but you had private therapy for a year which ended due to your behaviour towards the psychologist. I'm curious as to why you think it would be different.

I don't know what you want from MNers or from HCPs - we're all in the wrong whatever we post or do. Start working on looking at yourself and how you interact with people and maybe things will change. If not, keep going as you are, blaming everyone else and see how that works out for you.

What she should have said is ' that's bloody outrageous. I'm gonna get to the bottom of it and help you get sorted. This can't go on'
^ That.
Also nicesunny is right, people get angry when they are distressed and not listened to. I don't think op said she swore and shouted.
Harsh, keema.

element honey. Are you on meds from GP? Sorry forget if you've said. If not would he prescribe? Can you maybe contact crisis team to explain the woman misunderstood? I know how unutterably horrible it is, it shouldn't be so hard to get help. I care.

I don't think Keema is being harsh, i think she's spot on. These threads are incredibly frustrating for PP on here, and I suspect the dynamic of the threads is mirrored in the OP's interactions with HCPs, in terms of saying she wants help, but then getting hostile and argumentative and rejecting all suggestions that are made.

If someone is unwilling to look in any way at what they may be contributing themselves to a repeated pattern of unsatisfactory interactions with others, then it's hard to see a way forward.

chocolateaddict Thank you. I mean, really thank you.

hopelessly They won't commit to the diagnosis of BPD. It seems they act as if that's what I'm diagnosed with but wont offically label me with it... I was labelled with it once (when much younger and the shit I have nightmares about was actually happening) but it got removed for being inaccurate . I also suspect they don't want to make an official diagnosis because then I'd be able to demand treatment. Personally I dont think DBT would be helpful because I rarely aelf harm and am generally not impulsive, dont have drug/drink issues etc... my problems stem from feeling shite and I need to address that. But I'd go along with DBT in case there were helpful aspects and I could get some interpersonal therapy afterwards. Gosh I've literally just realised there probably wouldn't be, they'd probably just tell me i'd failed at DBT if that wasn't enough :(

Mushroom Do you just want to sound off on here or do you want some advice?
Mainly sounding off - this post in particular. Advice that implies someone has read what I've written and grasped the situation is also welcome though - but I don't expect anyone to be able to help in this situation, bar sympathy. Sadly.

keema Your thread about how your private psychologist had to stop seeing you due to your aggression being one of the most revealing of your previous posts. That was all her fault in your eyes - with you seemingly being blind to what you may have contributed to that situation yourself.
If I was speaking to someone - even without being paid! - and they poured their heart out to me and I just completely didnt take in what they were saying plus invalidated them, I'd expect them to get pretty pissed off. The therapist had been getting vague and strange for months - I should have ended it sooner, really, but I was trying my best to keep going and assuming it must be me in the wrong when it was her. She was forgetting stuff I'd said - like massive, central stuff, not details - it felt a bit like each session was the first time I was meeting her, having to go over the same old stuff. Whereas for the first year(ish) it had been helpful and felt like she understood, and certainly she remembered things. I don't know what changed, it was gradual. Then she kept saying I needed more support and contacting my GP - she didnt believe me that I couldnt get any. She had a really overinflated idea of what services provide. I have been treted really badly by professionals in the past, and that is part of my trauma, so being disbelieved is horrific, You can blame me if you like, but I know what happened, and I know I'm not the only one either. Oh she also over-shared some VERY personal stuff that made me so confused how to react - it was completely inappropriate. So things had got weird.

Anyway, so she started telling me I must be refusing help, and yeh, I shouted. Ort of "how the fuck can you think thtat?" type thing. You know, like people do when you push them and push them until they cant take anymore. But previously she'd said it was ok if I shouted etc (because I always kept a tight lid on things and constantly apologising for showing any emotion.) As I said on my other thread, I'd have apologised given half a chance. But also I should have already ended the therapy, I was already assuming it was me doing something wrong when she'd gone weird. So I dont get your judgement of me at all.

Just count yourself lucky you've not had to deal with cruel bullying staff who taunt you, write shit in your notes, that influences the next staff. I have intrusive memeorie and nightmares about what they did to me when I was still a teen. And thats how abusers get away with it isnt it - people dont believe the person. Well fuck you, frankly. Im sick of taking shit from people like you who dont bother to tink outside their own experience. I did learn some stuff in therapy - and weirdly its people like you who want to crush the tiny part of me that survived and isnt going to take bullshit anymore.

agony I'm not rejecting suggestions - people are making suggestions of stuff ive already tried and hasnt worked. Why is that so hard to understand? Im not being argumentative, im just in pain and frustrated that people are not listening to what im saying. Ive trie to get help again and again and ser ices wont help me. Doesnt matter how much i beg and plead and goalong with what they want, they wont help. Thats why i'm annoyed and frightened - yet you assume me being annoyed is the reason they wont help! Cant you see that im wound up now because of so long trying to get help? Why am i expected to be calm forever in the face of their bullshit?

mushroom I meant this thread, not this post. The OP was me trying not to self harm out of frustration. Thanks x

And ALL THIS IS BULLSHIT.

I struggle with feeling low, overwhelmed, hopeless, and intrusive memories and nightmares. This is what I struggle with day to day and would like some help with.

Why can't I get that help or support, instead of all these seondary and tertiary issues. I never get to work on the underlying issues because of all this shit I have to wade through to even be half understood!

ok, right now I am feeling really bad. The memories have been really bad all day. I cant write how I feel without getting deleted. Please understand. I could really do with some support and kindness. I m trying to be strong but its not really working. please could I hav some support and kindness, i feel so alone and wish i was dead. no-one believes the pain, no one knows the hrrors in ym head, i cnt make it go away

just wish was allowe d cry and hug and tell someone the nighmares not have to hide it an pretend to be fine and please them all. i never good enough not allowed to feel sad, not like the others, i have to please not have love

thisis why i musnt ask for help, must alwaysplease others prtend to be fine. i locked it insiede for years like they wanted, but it came out, i couldnt forget it all. i tried. i tried my best. im not good enough, not like the others. im not allowed to be sad, if im sad it means im bad and must be punished

Sadness is a natural response to bad experiences x

I give you permission to be sad, and to cry

thanky you
just so tired of it all.. i tried so hard for so long. When i was still in school i knew i had to always be fine so i hid it all. i wish Id asked for help before becoming an adult. then more bad stuff happened but I hd to survive so I hid it all again. Then i broke nd asked for help. It wasnt supposed to be like this.

If you come over as absolutely fine, then you show people that you are nowhere close to fine, not everyone will stand by you

My daughter has severe MH problems. I seldom see her friends coming to see if she's okay. I think they may have given up on the friendship. She's not the person she was at school

It's hard, especially if you are the kind of person who keeps troubles to yourself most of the time

Take care

Judging by your last comments you need proper inpatient help...
I really hope you get the help you need so you can get your life back. It took my son two years of inpatient treatment..

Morning element you ok? Did you get much sleep?

What a bloody mess. It reminds me of a 'Friends' scratch where Ross is in a plane just asking for a blanket I think and the flight attendant accuses him of being agressive and the more he protests he wasn't the more people get involved untill he gets kicked of the plane and arrested. He just wanted a blanket, he really wasn't being aggressive.

I don't know shit about self admitting but is there a possibility that you could ask to be admitted yourself some in patient treatment? Is there any governing bodies that help ladies like you navigate through this? I bet so many people fall through the cracks ☹

here

here

Don't know if these are any help element

That's ok element it's better to let it out then resort to self harming (I've been in and out of recovery with self harm I know the damage it can cause)

I really think you need someone to attend appointments at the gps with you because you're demoralised understandably and getting frustrated with the system you may not be getting your point across effectively. Is there anyone in your life that could help with this? Or do you have young dcs and could access a family support worker? They've helped me no end in the past.

Definitely contact pals they may be able to point you in the right direction.

Thinking of you

Have you tried contacting Samaritans OP? They can give you safe confidential space (on phone, email, text or face to face) to let off steam and talk about what you're going through, provide you with emotional support without judgment or advice. I agree that it seems posting these things on MN doesn't seem to help you- because the nature of people is that they will try and suggest things, give you advice, make judgements from what you post, and that doesn't seem to be helping you.

chocolate That sketch is a spot on way to describe it, yes. I have bad memories that frighten me and make me feel sick from what happened when i tried to get help when I was much younger. They not only didnt help me, but told homelessness services not to help either, so I was stuck living with a threatening violent male housemate (area with high housing demand and landlords wouldn't accept people on benefits, especially a 19 yr old). People just do not believe stuff like that happened (happens still?) and yet although I tried to forget all that stuff it wont go away from inside my head and teaing at my chest. I feel frightened, the slightest hintand I get scared of losing my home etc. My ex used to get cross cos I flinched so easily but I just seem to be super reactive in a fearful way. They used to put me in police cells a lot and I can't describe how awul that felt, locked in alone when I just needed help. Although the police were usually much nicer than the MH staff, some were very much not so. But they just seemd to hate me from the start, they said i was a waste of time in A&E, and insisted on breaking confidentiality and telling others my problems, but I want allowed to know what they said, but it made the other people dislike me. God it makes me want to hurt myself - I's just gone to the GP explaining the volatile environment I grew up in and that it had affected me and could i have some counselling please and yet they refused and seemed to hte me and the nightmare began. Why werent they nice to me?