Insomnia friends - help me beat this

[GetDownYouWillFall]

Am gutted to be resurrecting this thread as it means I am back in that same dark hole where I never wanted to be ever again.

But here I am.

My nights are so filled with anxiety I can't bear it. My body is so so tired, yet something in my mind fights sleep and just won't let go.

I know that the only way to beat it is to beat the anxiety. I used to know how to do it. But I've forgotten the secret. Please insomnia friends come back and help me remember how to beat it.

I've been here so many times before. I know in my mind it won't go on forever, but I'm not being rational. It feels like I've forgotten how to sleep. It's ruining my life. I'm irritable, forgetful, shaky, clumsy, miserable.

I love my baby and I love my little girl. I love my husband. Why is this happening. I don't have any "real" problems like so many people. I feel so guilty.

I just want to sleep again, and feel normal.

Thinking of you GetDown - I hope you take comfort in the fact that several of us on this thread have got better and you will too.

I think I mentioned it in my previous post that I now see the anxiety and insomnia as my side effect of having a baby. I'm not going to be having any more so I know I won't ever have to feel like that again. You will get better and you will get your sleep pattern back and unless you are planning to have any more then you will never have to put yourself through this again!

I feel the same way, I remember not sleeping at all some nights, two hours some nights etc and to be honest I think it would be quite hard to do that now. I still get the odd blip but a blip for me now is lying awake for 2-3 hours instead of twenty minutes so it must be a post-natal thing. Your hormones are all over the place and it must be a factor to the extra anxiety and difficulty falling asleep. You will get better as countrylover said. You did before. I am thinking about you today, I realise you won't be here but you are in my thoughts today x

Hi - haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has already said this, and obviously if you've been told this 10,000 times already.

Have you done the sleep only between 11.30pm and 6.30am? The rule is that for a week you must stick to it...set the alarm for 6.30 am and get up no matter how tired you are. You can then only go to bed once 11.30pm is reached. Do anything rather than sleep at other times....walk around, do exercise etc, etc....don't drive if you're that bad though. I remember reading somewhere that this method has been shown to cure 85% of all insomnias but you must give it a proper shot or it just doesn't work.

Good luck x

Hi getdown keep holding on to the thought that youve got better before and you WILL again this time.
Please feel free to get in touch with me anytime. Thinking of you x

Hi GetDown How was last night? I've been thinking about you and reading through this thread. I'm actually really surprised you can still function on so little sleep < hug >.

I know that there are lots of different theories on sleep and lack of it but I think personally I would go into survival mode, i.e. sleep when you can. If you can have a nap in the day or even just close your eyes for a bit and drift, I would go for it. I wouldn't worry too much about sleep routines. You need to be able to function for your own sake and everyone around you.

It's also easy to lose perspective, the less sleep you get. Maybe set yourself a time limit e.g. if you have no sleep one night, then two etc. consider starting back on mirtazapine or zopiclone just to get a pattern back again. This situation won't last forever and you may not need meds for very long.

Also I found in the past, in my case, it didn't necessarily mean I would sleep, the more tired I got. I got myself into a situation when I became overtired and was then unable to relax and tended to jerk myself awake. I don't know if this happens to you.

Hope this helps x

Thanks all for thinking of me.

I think it's fair to say that yesterday was a hellish day. I just could not function whatsoever. I could hardly even speak. The worst bit was the agitation. Despite being so tired, I was so anxious that I couldn't sit still or lie down, I had to keep moving around.

By the evening I'd got myself so worked up. Just wanted to say thank you to madmouse who I spoke to on the phone, and who helped calm me down.

I also called the out of hours crisis line and they were actually really helpful.

I absolutely forced myself to sit down and do deep breathing for a full 15 minutes. This was really hard as I kept having the urge to get up and the panic kept rising. But after the 15 minutes were over I did feel a bit calmer and it helped.

I only had 3.75 of zopiclone left, and sometimes in the past this smaller dose hasn't worked for me. DH bless him called out of hours GP to try and get a prescription, but being Sunday the nearest Pharmacy open was in London - an hours drive there and back! And the out of hrs gp would only prescribe one 3.75 tablet to make up mine to 7.5.

He was all for going, but thankfully he didn't. I didn't want him to drive all that way.

I kept using my breathing techniques and forcing myself to swap negative thoughts for positive ones - "I will get better, this won't last forever, I have more good days than bad days etc. etc." and boy, this was a hard mental effort, but I believe it was the key to calming down.

Gradually I felt the anxiety ease. I took my mirtazapine, and then an hour later the 3.75 of zopiclone. Fell asleep on the sofa, then managed to haul myself up to bed.

Initially I felt anxious when in bed, but just kept trying to think positive thoughts and let my mind drift. Another thing I've been doing lately is trying to memorise some Bible passages, and I forced myself to keep reciting them in my head.. my favourite is "Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and petition, present your requests to God. Then the peace of God, which transcends all understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus". It did really help me.

I managed to get about 8 hrs in the end. Feel so much calmer today

My CPN has visited this morning. She got me a prescription for 28 days of zopiclone which I was a bit about but I know she knows I am careful with them and would never take them too often. I actually hate taking them, but know when I need one to get me through a blip. I am not going to beat myself up over taking one every now and then. Hopefully the mirtazapine will kick in soon and I won't need them.

Thanks all for your support. I didn't post much yesterday as I felt so dreadful, but believe me I did read, and your comments were so valuable, especially as I know that you've been through it too and truly understand what it's like to suffer in this way.

Well done GetDown you are getting there. In a couple of weeks you will be back to strength - 8hours sleep is amazing the Mirtazapine must be starting to work because half a zopliclone would not have equalled that amount of sleep!. Sending you happy vibes.

yes I think you are right chief normally half a zopiclone wouldn't work that well for me, esp having been that anxious, so I think the mirtazapine is helping already. Thanks for your positive thoughts. It makes me feel hopeful that in a few weeks I will be fully back to normal. How are things with you?

So glad you got 8 hours sleep last night and things calmer today .

And yes you will soon be back to normal and looking back on this as a horrible blip x

I agree; you will get back to normal. It's a blip. You did so well to calm yourself down yesterday and it IS hard work but so worth it. It really does work as well. You did really well GetDown.

I am doing well thank you GetDown - we had a nice wee trip to town and the play cafe today. I am just relieved to be feeling myself again - as you will be too soon. Best of luck and remember we have all been there and came through it so if you need advice or just a rant - go ahead.

GetDown hope things are ok today x

I have to accept I am just not too well at the moment.

I seem to be yo-yo-ing between nights of zero sleep and then becoming desperate, taking medication and crashing the next night. It's an awful cycle.

I'm under the crisis team now and they are coming every day. I am having to take anti-anxiety medication. I don't like to but it's getting out of control and I have to just trust them for the short term that this is ok.

GetDown it is so good to hear from you. What anti-anxiety medication are you taking? Is it the same as what I had, diazepam? I think you have to trust the crisis team. I wish I could come over and see you. If DH wasn't away and I didn't have to bring three boys with me I'd be on my way. When I was suffering badly after DS3 I was having that same yo-yo thing. I am sure you will get out of it and in a way I think you need to just say 'oh this is how things are' and the relief of accepting that might even help somehow, almost expecting it to be hard, expecting to have very poor sleep one night, if any, and crashing the next, maybe that will help. I don't know. I really wish I had the answer :(

thanks becky it's so nice of you to say you'd like to come and see me. I know it's not possible, but it's lovely of you to be "with me" on here, offering your support.

I know you've been through this before, as have I. It's a comfort to me to know others that have suffered in the same way and got better.

My thought life has gone a bit out of control. I am pre-occupied with sleep. Even when I'm watching TV, doing the washing up etc. etc. I find myself thinking about it.... "what if this, or what if that....." It's so stupid. I can rationalise it away but they keep coming back. They've given me loarzepam

and yes, I think that accepting things the way they are is part of the answer. It's just so, so hard. DH has had to take time off work, and my mum has had to cancel stuff at home to come and be with me. I guess I should just be grateful they are willing to do this.

It's also so frustrating because I have been doing so well for so many months. And maybe I just thought I had beaten it and not got ill this time, but it appears to have caught me.

Getdown it sounds like you're have an awful time and I really feel for you.

I just wanted to tell you what happened to me as it sounds very similar.

I was on Mirtazapine before I got pregnant with DD (for depression and anxiety). It took a long time to come off it because every time I tried I suffered from terrible insomnia and I ended up back on it. I eventually came off it just before I got pregnant with DD. I was fine throughout my pregnancy and for 1st few months of DDs life.

Then suddenly when DD was around 4-5 months old I couldn't sleep again, I had no idea why as I had been fine up till then. I tried desperately for several months, doing all the things you're supposed to do for insomnia but nothing worked. It was I horrible time and the GPs I saw assumed I had PND but I KNEW I didn't, I just needed to sleep and then I'd be fine. Eventually when DD was 11 months old I admitted defeat and went to the doctors and got put back on Mirtazapine. I felt like such a failure.

I've been back on it now for about four years, BUT I only take 1/2 a 15mg tablet which isn't even a proper dose - as the GP keeps telling me - the dose is apparently too little to ACTUALLY do anything. But it does, it helps me sleep. And I get no side affects as the dose is too small. So I sleep normally and feel ok and that's all the matters really.

I don't know if this is of any help to you. I understand your reluctance to use medication I really do - I am still very disappointed with myself that I am unable to be medication free. But at least I can life a normal life now, which I really couldn't do before. And I do believe that mental health problems (anxiety, insomnia) can be actual illnesses, just like physical ones, and sometimes they can't be overcome by just willpower alone.

GetDown you have done amazingly well so far, I think you should actually be really proud of how well you've done and you have a lovely baby boy to boot! I didn't know you when you suffered after DD but I know your story. You are doing really, really well this time. Don't feel bad about how things are now, it is not your fault at all. I vividly remember that obsession with sleep: wondering if the people on TV sleep at night, obsessing about friends' sleep patterns, dreading going to bed, feeling sick with anxiety about going to bed, feeling insanely jealous of people who can survive on not much sleep, wishing and wishing I was 'normal', convincing myself I was a burden on everyone, crying all the time about it, convincing myself I was a bad mum because I wasn't functioning because I wasn't sleeping. Does that sound familiar? I am sure this is caused by a hormonal imbalance that comes after pregnancy. I am sure mainly because I am cured now. I think I would actually find it really hard not to sleep at all at night and to get that anxious about it. So it can't be just about the mind, or about a lack of strength, it must be a physical thing more than anything else. You are not well so you should not feel guilty at all for anything. You will get better, you have done before, and you're actually a really strong person, you proved that getting yourself better from being really very poorly and you were such an inspiration for me when I couldn't sleep. You made me realise that I could get better and I did :) You will too and whenever you need me, even if I can't come over to see you, I'm here in whatever capacity I can. We can keep this thread going as before - I used to like random chats on here as well as talking about sleep, but happy to talk about whatever.

Dontforgetthesoreendoreen thanks so much for sharing your story. Yes it does sound very similar to my situation. I can hardly believe I am in this state, because I didn't have this problem all during pregnancy or for the first 4.5 months since DS was born. It just seems to have come out of nohwere. But the fact you and others experienced it after pregnancy too, makes me feel that there is something more to it than just bad thoughts, perhaps a physical or hormonal thing to do with childbirth. I definitely feel it cannot be overcome by willpower alone as you say. The night before last when I didn't sleep at all, DH kept waking up and telling me to do deep breathing. I forced myself to do it for hours and hours on end, but it still didn't relax me. It was so frustrating not understanding why or being able to explain to DH why I simply COULDN'T relax. I suppose until you've been through it personally, it is very difficult to understand. Dontforget it sounds like you've done so well. 7.5 of mirtazpine is absolutely fine. I do understand how you feel, I wanted to get off all my medication too. But I realise it is not a failure if you need it to function.

I am really hoping my mirtazapine kicks in soon. It helped me a lot in the past.

Thanks becky your description is EXACTLY what I am going through. Obsessing about it, wondering if other people have slept, being jealous of DH sleeping etc. etc. I feel like my mind is very fragile e.g. I am really sensitive to distressing things on the TV, can't even watch the news at the moment. Also I get songs stuck in my head and can't get them out. My mind feels like it is in a very delicate state and is easily upset.

But you are quite right that I can and i WILL get better. Thanks for reminding me of that fact. It is a fact I desperately need to cling on to.

Hey Getdown - just googled Lorazepam and it seems to have been made exactly for situations like yours. Hope it helps you rest up a bit.

You mentioned earlier that you repeat bible passages to yourself. What I do when my head goes 'wrong' (that's how I call it, when thoughts tumble everywhere and none of the thoughts gets finished and there's snatches of everything at once) is sing, mostly Taize chants because they are short and repetitive. If you like singing give it a try, it has the added benefit of sorting out your breathing. I usually stick with Oh Lord Hear My Prayer, probably the simplest of all.

You know where I am if you need me, my mobile is always on. Still glad you felt able to call me the other day even if I didn't feel much use x

madmouse you really were useful on the phone, even though it maybe didn't seem like it and I wasn't making much sense! You did help calm me down. I am not normally that weird - honest!!

Yes, it's a good idea to sing, I will try it.

I've been doing quite well today, my mum has taken DD and DS is asleep. I've been distracting myself by making a card for my soon-to-be-born new neice. I love doing crafty things so it helped.

Unfortunately a programme came on radio 4 that I was listening to, and it had an article about sleeping tablets and how they cause early death It made my anxiety well up again, and now I feel a bit trembly.

I think it's definitely related to a change in hormones. As I say I was fine throughout pregnancy and the 1st few months of DDs life.

Interestingly the insomnia started again when I got my periods back 4 months after DD was born (despite breastfeeding grrrrrrrr) and my hair started falling out at the same time (I believe this is quite common and is due to a drop in hormones after childbirth).

I'm glad you're having a better day today.

Oh Getdown I remember you googling some really rare illness to do with death and sleep once - we had to talk you out of that tree and you promised not to google anymore. And now it's attacking you on the radio. I bet they were not talking about judicious short term use of sleeping tablets though. And not sleeping isn't much better for you, you just keep taking the meds you need to get through this phase.

Oh and you were not weird at all - just very anxious.

Just read this whole thread with interest as am also a chronic insomniac and a lot of you guys helped me out when I was pregnant (under a diff username but lets not go there). The point is that I remember you well Getdown and I have always greatly admired you for going on to have a second child as I know how hard your first experience was. I was in a MBU and all that too so we have a few things in common. You have come SO far I really think you are fabulous, no matter how you feel about yourself right now.

FWIW I think mitrazapine is one of the better ads I have been on for sleeping. I am addicted to zopiclone, albeit a low dose at night, and desperately want to beat this as thinking about ttc again (scared shitless but thats another story). So I relate only too well to the fear of not sleeping and the constant anxiety. But listen, I heard all the stuff on the radio the other day about the dangers of sleeping pills and yes it worried me too as like I say am on them every night for nearly a year now but, love, these were people that were doing stuff like taking up to 12 zopiclone just to get through the day they were talking about. You must not worry about the kind of medicating you are doing, you are obviously very sensible with it but don't be too hard on yourself for taking anything at all.

I know I will probably have everything you are going through right now to contend with if I do conceive again and it is so so hard but you got through it in the past and I know you will again. You have a lot of support here. Please be gentle on yourself, you are a strong lady doing the very best you can.