Insomnia friends; bye bye 2010 the year of bad sleep, hello 2011 the year of good sleep!

[BeckyBendyLegs]

How about this then everyone?

Get down 12 weeks

Madmouse - sorry you are struggling - hope this week is easier than last.
Im also going through a sticky time - think its probably linked to me reducing the medication down to 35mg - but trying to stick it out and not increase again because the reduction has meant that my problems with driving and drowsiness have gone away.

Countrylover - good to hear that you are doing so well on 35mg. i am a tricyclic too. originally 75mg - then 50mg and recently gradually down to 35mg. My aim was to get down to 25mg (mainly because its only one tablet, and also because ive been very well on that dose in the past) as a long term maintenance dose. But things not going 100% to plan because had a very shaky few days with anxiety, lows and obsessive thoughts. Hoping this will even out over the next couple of weeks.

Sorry to say that hospitals want you to have c-sections, its just in my antenatal class there were 20 of us and over half of us were being urged to have c-sections so I have a bit of biased opinion.

getdown Do you mind me asking you what happened during your labour and birth? What pain relief did you use etc? In my case DS was predicted to be a huge baby and I had also lost his twin at 16 weeks so I was a complicated pregnancy, hence them wanting me to have a planned c-section. During my labour DS went back to back and got stuck so I stopped dilating. After 8 hours of being at 4cm they gave me pethidine so I could sleep. (I refused an epidural as I was too scared to have one.) I then went from 4 to 10 cms in 45 mins! I was so out of it I couldn't explain to the midwife that I was pushing and I was so frightened I kept fighting the urge to push which is why I tore really badly. I had also retained some of DS's twin's placenta which caused me to bleed very very heavily. Even as everything was going wrong my midwife still had the thought to prop me forward so I could watch DS being born though, bless her!

Breast feeding can be more difficult due to it being more uncomfortable to feed. I could only feed DS sitting but just after a c-section you have to lie down for quite a while and the scar can be very painful. However stitches after a normal birth are painful too! Another problem can be its hard for you to have skin to skin contact straight after the birth, although most hospitals will do their best to try help you have skin to skin straight away. Its just more difficult during a c-section because there is a lot going on. Provided you're given the right support you should be fine and even with a natural birth it can sometimes be hard to have skin to skin if there are complications.

I have to say my midwives managed to give me skin to skin despite me bleeding out on the bed. I actually had no idea just how serious things were until I saw DH to be had gone as white as a sheet!

I think you need to wait a bit before deciding about a c-section. Just see how you get on and enjoy being pregnant again! I've been sleeping well thanks to me taking the right amount of sleeping pills! Tonight is my off night so i'll have to wait and see how I get on. I'm feeling really ill and tired from coming off the sertraline so i'm hoping i'll sleep well.

madmouse sorry to hear you're struggling. I'm thinking of you. DS hasn't been eating today so i'm a bit on edge about possible illness.

Hope everyone else is ok.

thanks so much holly for taking the time to write that down. My labour and birth were pretty bad, but you sound like you had a very traumatic time indeed! Am so sorry you went through all of that. Well done for getting through it - how old is your DS now?

I started off with TENS machine at home and was doing ok, but gradually got worse and worse so went into hospital. They sent me away with two paracetamols! Went back 4 hours later as was in agony and they then kept me in.

Had gas and air for a while, but eventually that was not enough so they gave me a shot of morphine. Then a bit later I had another shot of morphine (not what I would have chosen when thinking rationally, but they offered, and as I was in agony I just said "yes").

Eventually my contractions slowed and they wanted to give me syntocinon to speed them up. Thankfully DH protested and asked if they were going to do that I wanted an epidural first. So I then had the epidural. Apparently I then fell asleep for 4 hours, although I have no memory of this! I just remember being in agony, having the epidural, then being in agony again and screaming that the epidural wasn't working! (had no idea it has worn off after all that time).

The midwife made me deliver with my legs in stirrups which I found highly uncomfortable - I got excruiating cramp in my legs and they would not let me take my legs down. I still feel upset about how powerless I felt in that situation. Then when DD finally came out I tore very badly, had a haemorrhage and needed to go into surgery to be repaired - so then I had a spinal block too - so basically had every time of pain relief going in the end!

The tear had also severely damaged my pelvic floor so had urinary incontinence, and was re-catherised 3 or 4 times. DD would not feed and was losing weight so it was all very stressful.

Started having bad insomnia at around 6 weeks and it got so bad I was admitted to a mother and baby unit at 3 months.

I do think that a second birth - a good birth - could be a very healing experience if it all goes smoothly. I do feel hesitant about a c-section, just doesn't feel "right" somehow. But you're right it's a bit early yet to be worrying about it.

Glad that you're sleeping ok and remember tonight, if you don't get to sleep straight away DON't PANIC!! Hopefully tonight will be fine.

Sorry you are struggling madmouse xxx

getdown They tried to make me deliver with my legs in stirrups but luckily DH to be told them to get lost, I was too drugged and would have agreed to anything at that point probably! Stirrups can make delivery a lot harder as its not a natural position to push in and they are bloody uncomfortable, but obviously the midwives can see whats going on and assist more easily.

Lying down is a position where women often tear badly because the baby has to travel along rather then down. Squatting or sitting makes a bad tear less likely but if you've had lots of pain relief like we did its then hard to get into those positions.

It sounds like your DD might have been back to back which is what my DS was. That can make labour a lot longer and more painful as its harder for the baby to descend. If that was the case you might find that this time your baby is in a good position and you have a easier birth, (if giving birth is ever easy!).

Quite often babies find it hard to feed in the beginning because the first milk you have is thick and there's not much of it until your proper milk comes in a few days later. You might find that you have to give the baby some formula in the beginning. I had to do this with DS but used a spoon and cup so he didn't get used to bottles. DS would also only feed if the milk was there ready for him, he would not suck and wait for the "let down". If he didn't find the milk straight away he scream for the next hour and wouldn't feed. I used to pump my boobs with a hand pump before putting him on so that the milk was dripping and he could smell it. That way he'd latch more easily. After 3 weeks I topped him up with odd bottle of formula or breast milk too. I had to stop after 8 weeks as he wasn't getting enough and lost weight but at least he'd had something. even if breast feeding doesn't work out again just a few onces of expressed milk will make a big difference.

I actually managed to sleep! but DH has had to take day off as I am feeling very ill, bloody sertraline!

''Quite often babies find it hard to feed in the beginning because the first milk you have is thick and there's not much of it until your proper milk comes in a few days later. You might find that you have to give the baby some formula in the beginning.''

Holly who told you this? It's dangerously bad advice, sorry. Colostrum is made in small quantities for a reason as it is very rich and designed to line the stomach with all the bacteria the baby's guts need to process the milk that comes in a few days later. Babies are not born hungry, they are born with a need to suck. There is no need to give formula and in fact to do so means that the baby spends less time sucking and it is the sucking that helps the milk to come in (that's why I had to express frequently even though ds was in NICU and not allowed to eat). It also means that baby may not be hungry enough to persevere with learning to breastfeed (which takes effort!)when the milk comes in. Even if you don't use a bottle.

Agree with what you say about birth positions though

Oh holly I?m so glad you managed to sleep, that is fantastic. You need to WRITE THAT DOWN and remind yourself you can sleep naturally. These kind of positives can easily get lost in a sea of negatives when you feel rough but we need to cling on to them. I actually slept really well too ? went to bed at 9:30pm and woke at 6:30! There are some advantages to early pregnancy

Sorry the sertraline withdrawal is making you feel so bad. When you said you?d been prescribed sertraline I did worry for you TBH, as it?s an SSRI like citalopram (the one I had that made me go crazy) and prozac (the one becky had that made her really ill too). But I didn?t like to say anything as I know reading other people?s horror stories on the internet when you are about to start a new medication is hardly helpful. And obviously it works well for many many people. But I think for people like us, that are more on the ?anxious, agitated? scale ? they are not the right choice. Any more news for you on trying a different AD? When are you back at the dr?

At least you?ve got DH-to-be around today to help out.

Thanks for what you?ve said re, the birth. Yes, in hindsight I am very upset about having to have my legs in stirrups for the whole pushing stage. I realise I was basically pushing against gravity and the cramp in my legs was terrible. I asked DH what he remembered about it all and why I had to have my legs in stirrups. He said he asked the midwife and she?d told him that I was ?pushing much more effectively with my legs up? ? so he didn?t question it. - as you say ? much easier for the health professionals so they can see what is going on, not easier for the woman though.
I don?t know if DD was back to back TBH, no one ever mentioned this, but I suppose it?s possible. It was certainly a very long and painful labour. The labour had obviously taken it?s toll on her too, as her agpar score was pretty low at first ? she didn?t cry or anything and they had to revive her with oxygen. I probably should have been concerned when I didn?t hear a cry but I was so out of it, I don?t think I was really thinking straight at all.

Interesting what you said about the b/feeding. Was a good idea to get the milk flowing before putting DS to the breast. In my case, DD was just so sleepy she had quite a poor latch (sometimes it could take an hour just to get her to latch on) and then she would suck poorly for 5 minutes and then fall asleep again and come off. It was frustrating to be told things like ?Oooh you?ve got a naughty baby!? when things were not going well. I didn?t like them saying things like that. It was basically because of all the drugs they had given me that she was so sleepy, not because she was ?naughty?. Also I realise now that I was severely anaemic (didn?t have the blood transfusion till 5 days after labour) and have since been told this can affect milk production too. You?re right that some is better than nothing. I had to stop b/feeding at 3 weeks, but I?m glad at least she had the colostrum, and those 3 weeks of breast milk. This is going to sound really weird but I kept one of my expressed breast milk containers in the freezer for ages after I?d stopped, because I just couldn?t bear to throw it away and admit that b/feeding was over .

Sorry x-posts with madmouse

madmouse You're right about colostrum and sucking. The hospital told me to give DS formula. In fact they did without really asking me, which I was very annoyed about. I think they did it because he was screaming the place down constantly but to be quite honest I think that was because he'd had a bit of tough time coming into the world. I did feed him normally as much as I could but he wouldn't latch correctly and my nipples cracked. Once my milk came in I was fine. I was also quite out of it for a while.
How is DS's chicken pox?

getdown Madmouse is right, babies should have colostrum. I just meant if things aren't going right and you can't get the baby to feed its not the end of the world. You could even try hand expessing the colostrum and feeding it to the baby on a spoon if they don't latch. I know they need to suck too but at least you'd know that they'd had some colostrum. I did that in the hospital when I was feeling up to it. My midwife said to use a spoon rather than a bottle because babies can find breast feeding difficult after having a bottle.

I kept some of my frozen milk even though i'd stopped too!

Glad we agree Holly

DS seems to have the pox quite badly, including in his mouth - he rejects food while I think he's hungry . He seemed more boisterous and a bit brighter this afternoon so I'm hoping he's turning the corner.

Well i've now managed to sleep by myself for 3 nights in a row! Saw the doctor again today and we've agreed that I should stay off the ADs unless my sleep gets bad again.

Hope everyone else is ok?

madmouse How is DS now? Are the spots starting to get better?

Holly :)

well done Holly

DH is going away Friday-Monday (to London). I thought he was just going to be away Saturday night (for work). I'm nervous now :(

Becky you can cope - and we will be here to support you xxx

Had one of my anxiety bad nights last night - about two hours sleep in total. Ah me! What am I going to do with me?? It is all about DH going away and the fact I've been working 6 hours a day (every evening) and getting really stressed with work (but glad to be making money for DH to convert the cellar hopefully this year - not DH personally but it's his 'baby'). So I need lots of positive thoughts today - just because I didn't sleep last night doesn't mean the weekend will be awful, I can cope, I will cope, I have you guys, I have my real life friends who are coming over Saturday night for a take away, I have my lovely, lovely children. I'll be fine! I can cope surely? It's no big deal. Grrrrrr. Silly subconcious!!!

Oh dear becky so sorry to hear about your bad night. Remember all your coping strategies. And remember that tonight will be better.

My DH is away tonight too and am not relishing the prospect, but ah well, it's only one night.

He;s away for a week at the end of the month and that will not be fun at all.

holly am so pleased you seem to be turning the corner Well done for beating this. There's likely to still be some ups and downs but don't panic because you are making great progress.

I've got my 12 week scan later

Becky you've said it all there - all the reasons why you will cope :)

Maybe ease off a bit on the late night working though??

Getdown thinking of you - sure it will be ok xx

Yay! Baby Getdown is alive and kicking! Waved at us. Measuring 7cm - dated at 13 weeks 1 day. Very relieved and very excited!

Brilliant news

Get down x

Hooray for baby GetDown!!!!

That's so exciting, really happy for you. xxx

Becky how have you been today?

Madmouse I actually had a lovely day yesterday and DS3 was just a delight yesterday with lots of cuddles and new words, but then last night couldn't sleep despite being exhausted. Fell asleep around midnight but today I feel utterly horrendous - anxious and weepy. I've just looked back at my calender and the last time I felt like this, and had a sleep blip, was exactly a month ago. And the time before? A month before that. Is it the pill?? I am on my week off and I am sat here with tears streaming down my face and my stomach in knots. What is wrong with me?? I feel 'awful' yet I have nothing to feel awful about except perhaps the sleep thing. I can't stop bloody crying! I need to get a grip! If it is the pill, then can I deal with feeling like this for one week out of three?

Sorry, very self-indulgent there, how is everyone else?