Insomnia friends; bye bye 2010 the year of bad sleep, hello 2011 the year of good sleep!

[BeckyBendyLegs]

How about this then everyone?

Getdown I'm crying for you - with happiness. Been thinking of you all day xxx

I'm crying too! Thank you so much. x

GetDown that is lovely, lovely, lovely news!!! Soooooo happy!!!!

Brilliant that's lovely getdown. Hope it helps you to relax a bit now x

No baby mouse this month

Think it's a very early mc seeing how much it hurts - I never notice it's time for my period until I see blood but I've felt really poorly today.

Hugs madmouse Here for you

Thank Snowmash - I'm honestly ok - glad to have clarity as it was getting quite confusing. And there is always next month...

Fingers crossed for next month (and that the next few days aren't rubbish)

Oh madmouse I am so sorry It's gutting. Your month will come though, I really believe that.

Waves to snowmash - how are you doing?

We had our luxurious brand new expensive mattress arrive today, so very much looking forward to trying it out tonight!

waves to GetDown

I don't really know at the mo, might get help tomorrow. How are you?

madmouse :( I believe also that your time will come soon. Fingers and toes crossed for you here xx

GetDown hope you sleep well tonight.

We've had a fun day here - DH's birthday. Lots of presents, cake, fun, etc and DH doesn't even normally 'do' birthdays. We're all going to London this weekend as part of his birthday present - soooo excited! We're going to be tourists for the DSs. The DSs don't know they are going away yet or where (well, obviously where!) but they'll be sooo excited. I vividly remember my first trip to London. I was the age DS1 is and I had my first ever cornetto when we went to London for the day. I remember my dad grumbling at the expense of cornettos for five people! Somehow that made it taste extra, extra yummy.

Hello,

Is it ok if I join your thread?

I've been suffering from insomnia for nearly 5 months now and i'm starting to feel really down and lonely. None of my family or friends understand how I feel, it's horrible.

Quick background: had a baby boy 7 months ago and my sleep cycle got muddled with the night feeds and then when DS started sleeping, I couldn't. I became depressed and my GP told me that I had PND and that I should take ADs but i've heard bad things about them. I managed to sort myself out and started sleeping again on and off for about a month but now the insomnia is back worse than ever and I feel so alone.

I've tried: Herbal stuff, nytol, sominex, Paul McKenna, reading, listening to music and other stuff but i'm getting no where. I know its all in my head and if I stop worrying about it i'll be ok but I can't. I really want to try hypnotherapy but I can't afford it.

Going to see my GP today as i'm now on my 5th night of no sleep and just want 1 sleeping tablet so I can catch up this weekend. (and will probably end up on ADs too because I am now going mad.)

Madmouse: I'm so sorry to hear your news. I had the same thing (early mc) twice when before I had DS. I felt like it was never going to happen so we stopped trying. I was 2 weeks into my new job when I suddenly fell pregnant, it was a bit of a shock (my new boss wasn't too happy! It will happen but possibly when you least expect it.

Really sorry if i've been a pain, just thought it might help to talk to people who understand.

Hello Holly you poor thing, and welcome to this thread. You sound just like me. I had the exact same problem twelve months ago in the weeks following DS3's birth (no problems at all after DS1 and DS2). I also avoided ADs (well I tried them for three days but they made the insomnia worse for me), took the odd sleeping tablet (which worked but not a long-term solution), etc, tried herbal and homeopathic remedies (both of which did help but again not long term). All I can say is that it does get gradually much better, even though I have blips every couple of weeks or so. It really does get better.

Thank you BeckyBendyLegs for letting me join! Its good to hear someone being positive about it.

I know that it will get better and that stressing out wont help but its hard not to.

For me the problem is getting to sleep or I get to sleep but then wake 10 mins later dully awake. Last night I couldn't even read because my brain was so foggy and yet I still couldn't sleep. I'm hoping the GP will give me a few pills just so I can get a good night sleep and then I might feel less anxious about everything.

DH is very keen for me to go onto meds but I have read lots of reports saying they actually make the insomnia worse and now you've told me your story i'm even more against them.

Wish my head would sort itself out!

Hi Holly and welcome from me too. Your experience also sounds similar to mine. After I had DD I was such a mess, even when she started sleeping better I found I just could not sleep at all. It was like I was on permanent "high alert".

Initially I didn't have anxiety about insomnia, but as the weeks went by my anxiety about not sleeping got worse and worse. Eventually I got to the point where I would lie awake the whole night and not get a wink of sleep.

It is very isolating when no one understands - people just seem to think that if you get tired enough, you will sleep. For me, it seemed the opposite was true - the more tired I got, the more frantic I got and the less I could sleep. It was like a vicious cycle. I was ready to punch anyone who suggested lavendar oil.

I was given zopiclone (a sleeping pill) which helped the frst night, but pretty soon afterwards they didn't help any more and because they were addictive I was terrified of taking them. I was also given citalopram (an AD) which I held off taking but eventually gave in and started. It made me so much worse - anxiety, shaking, terror really. I stopped it after 3 days because it was so awful.

After that point I became so ill that I was eventually admitted to a mother and baby unit. Eventually I was given a different kind of AD - a sedating one - called mirtazapine. It absolutely worked wonders for me. Helped me sleep and calmed my anxiety a great deal. I am off it now, but I really think the mirtazapine helped me turn the corner.

Like becky I still have bad nights occasionally but on this thread I have found such good support to get through the bad days that follow the bad nights. We have found lots of coping strategies to deal with the insomnia and minimise the anxiety. We like to tell each other "Positive Sleep Thoughts" (PSTs) which are things to help you stop thinking so negatively about going to bed and trying to sleep.

I hope this helps, please feel free to keep posting, we have all been there and no how hideous it is xxx

Holly not all ADs have the same side effects. I think that GPs generally like to start people with the SSRIs (not sure what that means exactly) and those 'can' cause some insominia in some people initially (i.e. me and GetDown) but then I have read about people on the mental health threads going on about how tired they are taking various ADs so it's by no means a foregone conclusion that you will suffer with worse insomnia. I would say that with me what helped was realising that I wasn't going to die if I didn't sleep, that it was just a phase and a hormonal thing that would settle down, and that I could have 'good' days when tired, which I have had. And somehow gradually my anxiety went down and the sleep improved. It's not prefect. Even when I do sleep I am very restless most nights. Another thought: try vitamin B tablets - I take these and they are supposed to be great for hormonal issues after childbirth - mine come from Boots called Magnesium OK I think. I also take fish oil tablets in the day time and they really help my mood in the day.

Did you not find Paul McKenna work for you then? I have found him very helpful, but not 100% effective. I always fall asleep during the CD but then wake up after!

Becky I found him helpful for 2 nights but now I can listen to the whole CD and still be wide awake. I'm going to try Glenn Harrold tonight!

SSRI stands for Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, i've just looked them up. I was put on one type of these when I was a teenager and they made me really ill and a bit suicidal, I don't want to go back there. but you're right some ADs might be ok.

GetDownYouWillFall Thank you for your support too. And thanks for the info on mirtazapine and citalopram, i'm hearing a lot of negative thoughts on citalopram. I know what you mean about PSTs! I must start trying to have more of them. I keep thinking to myself "This is stupid Holly, pull yourself together!" but then I can't.

If i'm going onto ADs I think I want to give mirtazapine a go first but it will be up to the GP I guess, fingers crossed he'll listen to me.

Sorry had to dash off to hug DS before I could finish.

Becky I will try a B vitamin as lots of people said that this halped them. When you say "fish oil" do you cod liver oil? I'll try that too.

GetDown I'm really sorry to ask personal questions but were you able to kepp your DD with you all the time at the mother and baby unit? I'm terrified that they're going to take DS away because i'm a mess. I think if i'm honest with myself I have PND but I love my son and I would never hurt him. I'm worried that they'll think i'm an unfit mother if I have PND. I think deep down I have anxiety issues too. I am very paranoid and keep thinking the worst. I also misinterpret what people say sometimes. I think they're being critical when they're just tyring to help etc. I do think that mirtazapine might help. Did it make you really groggy the next day? Last time my insomnia was really bad my old GP gave me zopiclone just for 3 nights and it helped me as I was able to catch up on my sleep and felt more positive about cracking my insomnia problem but now its back. I really hope the GP will give me something to sleep tonight so I can catch up a bit.

Thank you for your comments both of you, i'm feeling a bit more positive now .

Holly if they took away all children of mothers who have PND there would be a huge shortage of foster placements. PND is common, treatable and doesn't mean you are a bad mother - and Social Services know that.

Do not avoid treatment out of a needless fear of losing your ds

And thanks for your comments - I already have a wonderful 3 yo ds so this is not the end of the world and I know I will move on from it soon. Just feeling very fragile today and it still hurts a lot. And the colleague who made me cry at work on Wednesday (hormonal) just announced her pregnancy too.

I text my friend for support at silly o' clock this morning while dh was still asleep (he's very tired) and he rang straight back concerned that I would beat myself up like I did over my body not keeping ds safe (ds got brain damaged before labour as opposed to during birth which is more common). How well does he know he, as those thoughts are bothering me.

It would be easier if my stomach didn't hurt so much, the ache keeps my thoughts focused on it and it's also in a place that reminds me of the physical pain and fear of the abuse.

So I am at work, but it's not going great and I think I will knock off early.

Sorry for the me me me post, will be back soon.

oh and This is stupid Holly, pull yourself together! is not a positive sleep thought, it's a very negative one.

Try I'm sleeping badly right now but it will pass and I can sort this.

holly yes I was able to keep my DD with me the whole time - in fact that is the point of mother and baby units - to keep mum and baby together.

I was really in an awful state and not really able to look after her, but the nurses were fab and supported everyone - letting you do as much or as little as you were able. As you got better, you took over more and more of the baby's care.

There were night nurses that did all the night feeds, and it was such a relief to know there were people around for support 24 hours a day. As you know the middle of the night is the loneliest time.

I hope you get on ok at the GP. I'm sorry to say it but yes I think you do have PND, but as madmouse has says, it's treatable, and yuo are doing the best thing for you and your baby to get help. No social services dept is going to take a baby away from a mother who is seeking help and clearly wanting the best for her son. You have nothing to fear. Even at my worst I had a visit from social services - the social worker was lovely, very non-judgemental, and there was no way they were going to separate me and DD.

By the way GPs don't always prescribe mirtazapine as it is called a "second line" AD - one they try after first line ones have failed. I got mine through referral to the community mental health team. One of our other insomnia friends on here arcadia got amytriptyline from the GP though, which I believe is also a sedating kind. There is also dosulepin which I think Orangeflutie is on and that also helps with sleep.

madmouse sorry yuo are in pain still, and that colleague announcing her pregnancy is like a double blow. Thinking of you xxx

You're right madmouse I must be more positive. I will use your PST.

Also sorry about the paranoid thoughts about having DS taken away. I just feel a bit low sometimes and worry that i'm letting him down. Letting myself down more like. I know I am being silly. At least i've admitted that something isn't right and i'm taking the first steps to fix it. I've even agreed to leave DS with my mother in law for a couple of hours next week. She's the main person that I have been paranoid about taking DS away, but she does say things before thinking sometimes. Anyway i'm biting the bullet and am letting her baby sit.

I had a lot of pain with my early mcs and I know how you feel about your thoughts being focused on it. I took paracetamol and nurofen together and then got stronger stuff rom my GP. I know what you mean about crying too, I felt like everyone was pregnant except for me and there were babies every where. I also had negative feelings about my body.

I'm sorry to hear about your DS having brain damage but I bet he's an amazing little person.

Hope you feel a bit better soon.

Getdown - Im so pleased for you .

Madmouse - hope the pain is starting to ease off for you :( Be really kind to yourself this weekend and try and have a rest.

Holly - i had very bad pnd after the birth of my twins 11 years ago. You WILL get better. Hope it goes ok with your GP. x

Thanks GetDownYouWillFall i'm not so worried now.

Thanks for the info on mirtazapine. Bit worried my GP will give me an SSRI as I don't think it will help my insomnia. The stuff I was on before kept me up all night and I ended up failing all my A-Levels! (Re-took them a year later though and did ok)

Luckily DH to be (I must stop calling him DH before we're married! we're getting married on 13/08/2011) is a chemist and knows all about ADs. He's coming with me for support and has said he will make sure I get the right ones. Bless him, he stayed up with me the other night and then had to go to work. Last night he was ill so needed his sleep.

I'm going to the GP at 4:30 tonight, fingers crossed.