Insomnia friends - I will sleep well tonight because I have told my unconscious I will- Part II

[madmouse]

Help we left it too late the old thread is full!!! Hope we all find this one!!!

oh becky !!!

I know just how you feel! This was totally me last weekend, wasn't it? You poor poor thing. It is totally pants. I feel for you

And the dropping the book thing - I get like that, where the tiniest thing sets me off - it's because you are so tired and your threshold for getting upset is so much lower/

Do the bare minimum today - try to see the positive. The fact you are going to in-laws for lunch means you don't have to host / cook. Ask DH to do most of the talking. Make the DS the focus so that they are distracted by them.

Why not treat yourself to a diazepam early evening, and then wind down. I find if I take them too near bedtime they don't really work, but if I take one about 6pm, I am nicely relaxed the whole evening.

Glad that DH comforted you this morning, and you DID get some sleep in the end.

So sorry - you will get through today. Just as I got through last week. You WILL.
xxxxxxx

thinking of you xxx

Can't stop crying :( I don't want to live like this. I'm so happy and stable when I'm getting enough sleep and when I'm not I'm this horrible, tearful, out-of-it space cadet.

Becky you don't have to live like this because your life isn't going to be like this - just a blip, you got some sleep and you will be ok.

And you will sleep well tonight because you only ever have occasional bad nights

Big hug, cold flannel, chin up

I had a difficult evening - I'm really struggling with this anger thing and I don't know how to express it and so it's going inward again. So didn't go to bed until 12.30. Didn't sleep bad considering - on and off until 8.30!

Hi wineonafriday - we just chatted on your thread about your job business.

Getdown praise God for your great night!!

thanks madmouse

becky - I wish I could mail you one of my mirtazapine tablets - you would be asleep on the sofa by 10pm!!!

I know what you mean about the tears - they keep coming when you are so tired.

But as madmouse says, this is just a blip. You always get over these blips. Your thinking is foggy and clouded because you are tired. When you have slept you are more rational and can see that this is just a few nights.

Do you keep a diary of your bad nights? I bet if you did you would see how few and far between they are.

I kind of do because they show up on my BBT chart - I have been charting since January and looking back I have noticed I have about 4 bad nights per month. Some months with no bad nights at all. This is not a lot really.

However, it seems so many more than that, because the way I feel after the bad night is so awful, it is exaggerated in my mind.

becky at least you are not on any drugs for your sleep. For me without the mirtazapine my sleep goes haywire. At least your sleep is really just "you" and you're not relying on anything else.

madmouse sorry to hear you are still struggling with the anger. What does your counsellor say about it?

Hi Getdownyouwillfall, :)

Thanks for the advice. Yes - it's zopiclone. I probably would take them more often if I didn't feel so dopey the following day. I have a long drive to work which worries me. But then I know it is also a good thing that I'm not taking them as like you said, I don't want to become addicted.

The source of my stress is my job - I have been dealing with a very stressful situation which I have posted about on another thread on here. That is coming to an end in three weeks as I have resigned due to how it had been making me feel. Of course that is likely to lead to more stress as I'm then likely to be unemployed but I honestly don't think anything could be as bad as the past two months.

I will check out that Paul McKenna book on payday. It would be great to have something to help that doesn't involve swallowing a tablet!

Last night wasn't great but I did get a decent amount. I struggled to get to sleep then was awake for about 2 or 3 hours in the middle but did eventually get back to sleep for about another 4.

Today I am feeling really on edge and very nervous. It's because I know it's Monday tomorrow and I have to deal with another 5 days of being in that place. :(

Pleased to hear you had a good night. I'm always really pleased when I wake up and realise I have been asleep for the whole night! :) It's such a novelty that it feels like I've done something really special and enjoyable!

Hello again Madmouse :)

Becky - so sorry to hear you have had a bad night. I don't know any of your back story other than what I have read on here the past day but try to take each hour of today as it comes. When I haven't slept I find the thought of having to do anything and make it through to night time absolutely sickening as I can't see how I can.

Try thinking about what you have to do for the next hour or two and before you know it it will be lunchtime and then the evening when you can hopefully just relax. :)

Wineonafridaynight how on earth do you manage on two hours a night?? I've had two nights of three and I am a mess today. The tears are dripping off my chin now and I don't even know what I am crying about!!! My back story briefly is that before DS3 was born I would have a bad night perhaps twice a year, like regular people do I guess, and a bad night meant not getting to sleep until about 1am but then sleeping through until morning. When DS3 was born I got a bowt of postnatal insomnia and although the hormones are probably much better now I have sleep anxiety which gives me bowts of insomnia every two weeks or so now. My GP also gave me the z pills back in January and I was actually told to take them for two weeks solid! But that's a long story, stupid health visitor, grrrr. Anyway, I still have about half that packet left and I haven't take one since about April I think because I now have this pathalogical fear of sleeping tablets! So I suffer for my fears having days like today.

Ho hum.

Madmouse thinking of you as you are going through what you are going through xxx

becky I second madmouse's suggestion of a cool flannel. My DH always gets me a cool flannel in the night if I start panicking / crying!

The coolness is calming if you place it over your eyes / temples, also reduces the puffiness.

Lie down or just sit for 15 minutes with the cool wet flannel over your eyes and practise deep breathing.
xxx

Oh dear Becky. You have had a tough time of it by the sounds of it. Two hours isn't fun - i tend to not get too emotionally upset about it but the only way I survive at work is through excessive amounts of caffeine and even then I'm not getting much productive done as my mind can't stay focussed.

It sounds awful for you. I find that the more I worry about not sleeping, the more I then don't sleep and the more upset I get. At the moment I'm not sleeping because of a particular situation with work and me not sleeping the past few nights has been due to me constantly thinking about that and not being able to turn off from it. However a few weeks back it got to a point where I was worrying about not sleeping and getting really upset at the thought of it - does that sound similar to your sleep anxiety?

When I was like that I tried to keep calm about it and sort of conditioned myself to think all day 'well if I don't sleep, I don't sleep'. Easier said than done but I found if I could make myself think very level headed about it then it helped. I kept reminding myself that 'OK this is really rubbish that I'm not sleeping but I have just made it through another day on no sleep so I can do this'. Not sure if that makes sense or helps at all.

Wineonafridaynight that is exactly it with me! And I've been on this hamster wheel of good sleep, bad sleep, worry, better sleep, good sleep, bad sleep for months now. It does help, what you say, and I do do that too when I force myself to be positive and I know it works! Worrying about sleep makes the insomnia worse, I know. My problem is, and I'm sure many other people have this too (including GetDown) that I feel so unwell when I haven't slept and the fear of that feeling is really strong. I feel sick, headachy, shakey, depressed (even at one point in January telling DH everyone would be better off without me). I am so scared of those feelings. I know that chances are I won't ever be as bad as I was in January. Also, I work freelance so I need not to be fogged up and tearful to do my job!

Becky I can understand that. I'm 'lucky' that I have now got to a point where I have had to leave my job so the foggyness doesn't effect me that bad.

I got given a written warning about a month and a half ago now for poor performance (this was after having a really good appraisal about a month earlier so was very and a bit ). At that time when I wasn't sleeping it was awful as I felt like I needed to be focussing so I could do a really good job but then couldn't sleep so just sat there staring at words on the computer screen and they didn't make sense. It was awful so I can totally understand how worrying it must be when you are freelance and need to do the work to bring in money!

Since then the company have basically treated me utterly awfully (they were all ready anyway but even worse) and I am now leaving. I guess what I'm struggling with now is the nervousness around that situation and and the anxiety around that. The foggy feeling no longer matters so much to me I guess because at the end of the day I'm out of there in a month. On the other hand it does matter because it isn't in my nature not to work hard or want to do a good job [they even basically told me that it's not that I'm not hard working - just shit basically].

Sorry I didn't want to turn this around to be all about me. I just wanted to say I can see why you are struggling so much with the not being able to focus when you haven't slept.

It sounds as though your not sleeping is feeding your depression where as my depression is feeding my not sleeping if that makes sense. Then again it always feels like one never ending circle of nastyness anyway!

Wineonafridaynight it sounds like you've had a really tough time. Are you a bit of a workaholic? That's what I am like. Before DS3 was born I'd been working evenings, weekends as well as bits during the day around the other two DSs and actually thriving on the stress of it all.

I don't feel depressed at all when I've slept well. I'm a happy, settled person normally! I'm an anxious person though but always have been. I'm very, very angry that this has happened to me. I never used to worry about sleep at all.

Yes I can be a bit of a workaholic - I'm contracted to do 9-5.30 but would usually be in at 7.30/8am and leave at 6!

Basically lots of stuff got piled on to me earlier this year and there were a few clients where things weren't going so well. I told people more senior than me at the time that we were struggling to get work through but didn't care until things really got bad. Then they blamed it all on me and told me i was getting a written warning - there was no investigation I was told about, when I appealed it was basically ignored, no one actually cared the reasons as to why things had been bad and I was just made the fall guy for it all.

Now that i have quit I am really angry at myself for letting them walk all over me. I feel like such a failure not only at my job (even though I know I was doing a good job) but also at being a strong person!

I'm the same - in the past it has just been anxiety that has really got to me it is just around this situation that things have got bad. Sleep had never been an issue for me at all. It is so frustrating isn't it?

I don't have children which I think must make things easier - I can't imagine what it is like trying to cope with a child without sleeping. It must be tough.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your line of work?

I used to work at Oxford University Press as an editor and now I work with online publishing as a freelancer for them - basically putting academic books online for subscription. I love my work. How about you? What is your line of work? It sounds like they treated you really badly - perhaps this is for the better in the long run.

Oh that sounds good. I work in PR - mainly B2B but a little B2C as well.

It is good in the long run. Being away from there will be a huge weight off my shoulders and I'm excited about starting work somewhere new...if I can find something!

I have three weeks to get through and I have no idea how. Friday was a particularly bad day and I had a total breakdown at work before leaving early. Tomorrow I have a Drs appointment mid-morning. I know the dr will suggest I get signed off as they have done twice before but then i worry about how that will impact upon future job prospects.

Here's to a good nights sleep for both of us tonight! :)

Oh Becky - Im sorry you are having such a difficult day.
Hope you can just manage to 'float' through the lunch so you dont feel any extra stress.

Im having a difficult couple of days too - but same old same old with me so wont bore you all with the details x

Hi! I have been lurking on your pages for ages and have found all of your experiences extremely helpful. Somehow it helps to know you are not the only one suffering this. Sorry, this is going to be a long post but I finally feel ready to put my thoughts down in writing.
My back story is that I had never had any problems sleeping until DS1 was born. Then, automatically, overnight I lost the ability to sleep.

I do not think this was because of any anxiety over DS1 as he was a great sleeper for the first six months of his life. I believe the change was either hormonal or caused by the fact that I didn't get any sleep for two nights during labour nor for the next two because of noise on the hospital ward.
Anyway whatever the reason, by the time DS1 was six weeks, I was a snivelling wreck who was getting somewhere between three and no hours sleep a night. My GP initially prescibed me some zopiclone but after they failed to send me to sleep the first night, I never really trusted them so they did nothing for my sleep anxiety.

My GP then put me on Mirtazapine (15mg) which are miracle pills. My ability to sleep returned and life went back to normal. However, I am already quite overweight and the Mirtazapine really effect my appetite and I can't really afford to keep putting on weight (I realise I can't blame all this on the Mirtazapine), also the Mirtazapine put me into a kind of daze which sometimes last all day.
DS1 is now 13 months and I have tried twice to come off the Mirtazapine. Both times I have reduced very slowly and have been fine until about a week after I give up completly when my ability to sleep leaves again and I turn into mush. I am not sure whether this is just withdrawal from the Mirtazapine as both times I gave up after three really bad nights sleep. After the second failure two weeks ago, I started to take half a tablet a night and am able to sleep on that. However like Getdown I don't want to stay on these tablets for the rest of my life. They allow me to get on with life but I am not the same person on them!

Hi midnight, I agree - finding others who are struggling helps a lot. It's nice to think that you aren't alone and there are others. I know at times I start to think I'm actually going crazy!

Have you been back to the Dr since two weeks ago? I don't know much about meds but maybe there is something else they can advice you to take that will help but isn't so strong.

Also I reckon you should deal with one problem at a time. Get your sleep sorted then worry about the weight - I don't think I could cope with trying to do both at once as it all takes so much energy.

hi midnightisaplace my eyes literally widened when I read your post - you could be describing me!

I had a really traumatic birth with DD - ended up being in hospital for 9 days. I virtually had no sleep during that time as the ward was so hot and noisy. This combined with a haemorhage left me totally and utterly depleted.

My ability to sleep seemed to evaporate. By 6 weeks I wasn't sleeping - at all. I became so ill and anxious because of lack of sleep. I was prescribed zopiclone, temazepam etc. they worked the first night but on the second night they had no effect. One night I was so desperate I took 3x the prescribed dose of temazepam and it only knocked me out for 2 hours!! I was told later this dose had been enough to knock a large man out for 2 days!! (I am 8 stone).

Ended up in a mother and baby unit for 3 months

Eventually got prescribed mirtazapine which helped soooo much.

I'm now trying to get off it because we want to try for another baby. Weaned off my 15mg tablet over the course of 4 months! I thought because I had done it so slowly, I would be fine. However, within 3 days of stopping completely I was not sleeping again. Had to start on my 15mg again

Now I don't know what to do....

Hi Getdown, I know our stories sound quite similar. I was reading with interest your attempts a week or so ago to give up the mirtazapine completly. I didn't want to post then as the last thing you want to hear when you are trying something like that is how somebody else has failed.
I haven't been back to the doctors wineonafriday night as the last time I failed coming off them she just suggested I stay on them for another year. However, I think I might need an appointment to talk things over.
The thing is I really don't think I am depressed! When I sleep well I feel great. My problems revolve solely around sleep and side effects of the mirtazapine. Even when I was at my worst six weeks after DS birth and I was hallucinating and repeating the same thing in my head all the time, I am pretty sure it was down to lack of sleep. However as the mirtazapine works the doctor is happy to have found a solution.
Have any of you other insomniacs had tests to rule out any physical causes, such as a thyroid problem?

Hi midnightisaplace (love the name) welcome!

'The thing is I really don't think I am depressed! When I sleep I feel great.' Everyone else - how often have you heard me say this too??? And you GetDown.

Anyone got the Sunday Times? There is a really interesting article in one of the magazines about hormone imbalance in women in their 30s and 40s being misdiagnosed as depression as the symptoms include: early waking, insomnia, anxiety, highs and lows of temper (I do get this around the time of the month), lethargy, low mood and there were a couple of other things. I am sure that has been my problem since DS3 was born. My hormones just feel out of kilter to me. If you can get hold of a copy - read it and let me know what you think. The article was saying how GPs just perscribe ADs when the problem can so easily be helped with various hormone treatments (can't see this happening in 'real life' though). It was interesting.

I was at my in-laws today and mother in law said 'I've been awake since 4am' and brother in law admitted he has had sleep problems so I said 'oooh I'll lend you Paul McKenna!'.

Anyway, I am soooo tired now. I can't blame withdrawal on mirtazapine for my current blip, I think I've just got myself in a tizz again after being over-tired yesterday and I have to get myself out of the tizz again somehow. It's pants, eh? My eyes are itchy, my body is in a fog, my neck aches, my stomach is all tight and knotted. Let's hope tomorrow is a good day with lots of good sleep tonight zzz

Yep Becky I did think of you when I read that!!!

Hey everyone I'm back from staying with the in laws in London where I've been since Thursday.
Interested to read all the posts and welcome to the newcomers, very interesting stories and similar to mine too, midnightisaplace though I seem to have found a partial solution to my insomnia after the birth of my daughter nine months ago by using the sedating antihystamines (nytol and sominex), though i don't want them to be forever.

The good news is that I've slept so well while I was away , and the two nights before I went away.
The first two nights I was in London without DP and I slept fantastically well, I felt so confident I didn't take anything the second night and just took half a nytol the night before that and slept really well (woke for the toilet once but straight back off til 8pm) - I did have alcohol all nights though!

However last night when DP had arrived and was in bed with me I didn't sleep so well as I felt annoyed with him for some reason so when I woke at 2am and was still awake at 2.30am decided to take a sominex and went straight back off. We definitely do disturb eachother in the night.

Becky you are like me now - just the odd blip. Stay strong, you will be OK, you will get over this very gradually when the fear of lack of sleep no longer has any hold over you. YOu will get tho that point Eventually I think!

Glad you're so much better GetDown I think you need to be pragmatic and stay on the low dose of mirtazapine. I think you are wise to keep an open mind re. taking something whilst TTC and possibly pregnancy too. I understand what you mean about the guilt if something were wrong with the baby, but on the other hand you need to look after yourself too.

In my job we worked with quite a few cases where heroin addicts/alcoholics gave birth and none of those mothers seemed to feel any guilt, it's so unfair isn't it!

DD being really lovely but DP is being grumpy again and a bit rude to me I think we're going to have to have a 'talk' about it. When I read what you say about your DH's I can't believe how nice they are to you in the middle of the night!!!