Insomnia friends - I will sleep well tonight because I have told my unconscious I will- Part II

[madmouse]

Help we left it too late the old thread is full!!! Hope we all find this one!!!

Oh Wow Squared!!!!!!!

You give me hope GetDown ! Now I need to dig out my knitting.

It happened for me and DP first time we tried too, I couldn't believe it (and I was also a bit disappointed about not having a reason to do lots of 'trying') !

GetDown yay!! so pleased for you!
Well done x

Thank you all so much for your good wishes. It?s so lovely to feel I have friends on here that I can share it with?.. obviously won?t be telling anyone in RL for a while??

It was tricky this morning as my mum is staying (looking after DD), so told DH in the bedroom and we both had to go downstairs and ?act normal?!!

I am now really paranoid that people somehow ?know? ? e.g. at work a made a comment about feeling really hot, and a colleague said something ? totally innocently ? but I am thinking, ?arrgh, they know, they know! It?s written all over my forehead!!?

Obviously now in a bit of a quandary about my tiny little bit of mirtazapine On an eighth of a tablet now but should I stop? My head says ?no? but my heart says ?yes?. Please don?t shout at me!!!

Am scared about seeing the GP now in case they say ?what do you mean you are taking mirtazapine - you need to get off it or you will harm your baby? Unlikely but we have a couple of really ?old school? GPs at our practise who I can really imagine saying that!

Also it?s dawning on me that there?ll be no zopiclone or diazepam for a while? think my Paul Mckenna CD is in for a bit of a work out! Used it last night but was awake most of the night. Not surprising really.

arcadia have you been for your appointment yet? Do let us know how it goes! Really hope they are supportive and give you something that is really going to help.

Getdown I would not stop that bit of mirtazepine - I doubt any of it makes it anywhere near your baby it is so little.

I just feel prompted to say this for sone reason: Keep sharing your anxiety. A few months ago you felt that you would never have another one and look how far you've come. Whatever you do, don't think you can't '''moan''' now. Let us support you. (I promise to do the same once I conceive again - I think DH has vague plans of emigrating for 9 months when I'm pregnant again and I won't envy my friends, I will be a mess....)

I still lurk on this thread every now and again and I often think about you all when I'm going to sleep. That sounds really odd but I mean it in a kind of 'I hope they're all getting into bed and feeling relaxed type of way'.

So, I'm over the moon for you getdown. Seriously, that is such good news. And for what it's worth, I wouldn't worry one bit about the tiny amount of the AD you take each day. If it keeps you sane then you must carry on with it. I'm no doctor but I wouldn't have thought something of that amount would cause any problems compared to the issues it might create if you stopped it now.

Anyway, CONGRATULATIONS!

Sorry to barge in, i have a question.

My dad really suffers with insomnia and takes Zopiclone - I was wondering if anyone here has found melatonin to be effective?

I echo what madmouse says. I will be here to support you - not only about sleep issues, anything. I'm a bit of a pregnancy veteran (having been pregnant five times).

countrylover hello! How are you doing?

Colditz sorry not to be much help. I really don't know! I've heard of melatonin but know nothing about it.

GetDown I feel so excited today for you!!!!

I'm good thanks becky...I'm still on a really low dose of dosulepin. The starting dose to have 'any beneficial effect' is 75mg and I'm now down to 50mg. According to the gp, it won't be doing anything now but she's happy and I'm happy to keep going on it for as long as I want.

I'm sleeping well and have been for a while now but I must admit I do get really anxious a lot of the time these days. It's sometimes about sleep but more often than not, it's just the fear of IT (the dark and suffocating cloud of depression) coming back. I can sometimes convince myself that it's on it's way but it never materialises which obviously is just fine with me! But it's annoying none the less as I would like to be free from being scared of something than in all likelyhood isn't going to happen again.

Maybe it just takes time...

Countrylover it sounds like you have made huge progress. I know what you mean about the fear though, I think I am probably in a similar situation in that for the most part I am fine, sleeping okish, not brilliantly, but enough to cope with, but every now and then I get overcome by a wave of anxiety and 'what if' feelings. Every time I think about Christmas and winter I have to stop myself from remembering last year for fear of it coming back again. I think it does just take time.

PS Does anyone know why DS3 is at the moment just unable to nap in the day time!!??!! It is driving me bananas. Until this week he'd nap quite happily at about 10am-11.30am and 2pm-onwards (3pm on a school day, 4.30pm at the weekend). Today and yesterday he's not wanted to go to sleep at all. Perhaps his times are shifting? I can't remember the other two at this age, ie when they napped in the day.

Hi all, thanks so much for your support. Yes I am sure there will be wobbles along the way of various proportions. I will really appreciate being able to wail on here with people who understand!!

Nice to see you again countrylover. Hope you are doing well at the moment? I'm sure you, and madmouse are right re. the little bit of AD I still take... the way I see it, is surely it's better to take a tiny dose, than risk having a crash and maybe end up having to take a higher dose plus goodness knows what else besides...

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with DS3's naps becky - perhaps he is shifting to just needing one nap per day? Maybe skip the morning nap, try and do something physical to wear him out in the mornings and put him down after lunch?

colditz hi there How long has your dad been on zopiclone? It can be quite addictive and is hard to get off if you've been on it more than a month or so. I use melatonin occasionally, and I do believe it helped. Certainly not a "wonder cure" though as there were some nights where literally nothing worked, but on a night where you can go to bed relaxed it can work. I used the Dr. Mercola under the tongue spray melatonin.

HTH.

Proud mummy alert! Both DS1 and DS2 are on the Gifted and Talented register!!! I've just found a letter in DS1's bookbag which he just told me about. I am beaming!!!

Hello again

Countrylover great to hear from you again. What you say is so true about the worry of depression coming back. I get this too. It's a horrible feeling and it probably does take time for it to pass. I reduced down to 25mg dosulepin and although it's a tiny dose, my doctor seems to think it's probably doing something. I saw her today and she's suggested going up to 50mg about Christmas time as January is a bad month for me. I'm happy about this. Anything that helps is good.

arcadia Whilst I was at the doctors this morning talking about things, she said "Whilst you're here you can have your flu jab, I'm getting asthmatic patients as they come through the door to save time!)" A good idea but now have a sore left arm. Hope you got on OK today.

GetDown it's so weird I haven't stopped smiling all day. Your news has given me a real lift so you must be really exited:)
I agree with the others that it's probably best to stay on the tiny dose of mirtazapine as it's working for you as if you're happy your baby will be too.

sorry 'and if'

Becky crossed posts. That's brilliant:)

Had rubbish time at doctor will write more later and read posts properly later - have been out all day - you've been busy on here!

oh arcadia ! What happened? Tell us, we will get on our high horses for you!

becky congrats re. your talented boys!! How lovely! You should rightly be proud - "you did that"

orangeflutie I am so touched that you have been smiling today because of my news. That is so kind of you, I do feel a real care and concern for everyone on here too. Just having people that know how hard it is to be a mum, and also that understand how crippling insomnia is at the same time. Thank you so much!

madmouse how's your day been?

I've been at work today, but hardly did any work was just in a world of my own!!! So distracted!

Feel a bit achey "down there" at the moment, hope everything is ok, have read that it can take a bit of time for the implanting to settle down so am hoping that's what it is.

GetDown achy down there is totally normal. It's a good sign :) your little bean is settling down for the ride!

I've been grinning all day too for you! I love happy news!

Excuse me barging in on your thread but I wanted to extol the virtues of magnesium citrate, which I think some of you are taking.

The very basic terms it was explained to me in, were that your body processes magnesium at night, and if you are deficient the process stops and this can wake you.

Anyway, it absolutely worked for me. You'll know if the recommended dose is too much for you personally if it gives you the runs...!

Hi there all Becky great news about your lovely boys! Don't know about DS3's naps - my DD (bit younger) still has two a day but it can be a bit variable.

So I've come away from the GP (saw a new one today) with propanol - a beta blocker for the physical anxiety symptoms - and some zopiclone. He wouldn't even consider mirtazapine, point blank. He was uncertain about dothepin (sp?) and checked his book but said he never prescribes it (and obviously doesn't feel comfortable doing so). We agreed that diazepam may not be a good idea (he said it's very addictive, and I've heard the same). He wouldn't consider referring me to CMHT. He did offer me amitriptyline but I have a friend who has just come off it because of bad side effects so I'm not keen. Anyone any experience of that? Anyway, I think I maybe played the 'I'm not depressed just anxious' thing too strongly because I have felt really down at times (just not today), and I got myself in an assertive mood so went in quite 'up'. I was also feeling happier as I've felt relieved that I may find an answer to this sleep problem. Anyway, for whatever reason I didn't come out feeling good. I felt quite rushed, and he wasn't a sympathetic type, and seemed almost irritated by me pushing for antidepressants when I'm saying I don't really feel depressed. I forgot to even ask about counselling. GPs just don't know what to do about insomnia do they?

I'm not sure now whether to change doctors surgeries (I've had a couple of bad experiences there) or stick with it. He asked me to come back in two weeks. I suppose if no improvement he would give me amitriptyline (which would at least help me sleep). I tried a propanol this afternoon but didn't seem to make any difference really though I do feel more dozy this evening than usual.

Saw the Health Visitor this morning for DD's health check who was really nice. We have a good relationship and she knows the doctors surgeries and the GPs in my area (fortunately lots of choice round here - some closer to my house too). Should I ring her and ask for a recommendation of a sympathetic female doctor who is good with MH issues (preferably post natal ones)? Or should I stick with what I've got? Am I just being difficult? Suggestions welcome. Oh and I'm only planning to take zopiclone the night before days I have to work and if I'm feeling especially stressed - but he gave me loads! .

Any thoughts/comments?

thanks becky that is a relief to know.

Hi Lotster yes I'd heard that too about magnesium, I did take it for a while and I think it helped.

arcadia - oh no what a nightmare! So sorry to hear he was not a sympathetic type.

So frustrating ... you shouldn't have to "play it" any way at all, but I know that it often ends up being the case in these appointments, because you feel you have so much to get across in such a short space of time. They don't know anything about how long you've been agonising and struggling over this ... it makes me angry that they can just not consider something that might really help you, just because they have no experience of it.

I was given propranolol at one point too... TBH I didn't find it helped much. Yes it reduces your heart rate but that's about it... doesn't actually stop you feeling anxious (didn't me, anyway). And I scared myself by reading that insomnia can be a side effect But obviously that doesn't happen to everyone, so please don't panic!!

Am a bit that he gave you loads of zopiclone!! How many is loads??? TBH it would have been better to give you an AD than zopiclone! He said that diazepam is addictive, but zopiclone is equally so. He sounds a bit

I have heard that amytriptiline is good for insomnia, think it's an older style tricyclic - may be worth a go...

Not sure about changing GP just yet. Perhaps go back in two weeks as he said and give the amytriptiline a try.

So sorry you had this experience. It is really frustrating navigating your way through the NHS sometimes to get the help you need

Oh arcadia I'm sorry it didn't go well today. It's horrible when you leave the doctors feeling misunderstood. I have had experience of this myself and have changed surgeries in the past because of it.

I would say don't put up with a doctor you're not happy with for too long. It's important to be able to talk about anything and feel comfortable. I wish I could send you to mine she's lovely. Where I go is good because all the doctors are women and you can see anyone you want.

I've also heard amytriptiline is good for insomnia. I'm not sure about propanol, I know it's often prescribed for anxiety and migraines. As far as I know it doesn't cause insomnia.

Hope you sleep ok tonight x

Thanks getdown and orangeflutie. I do feel a bit fed up today. The propanolol doesn't seem to do anything really. I slept OK last night, not brilliantly, just with a sominex. He's given me 28 of the 3.75 zopiclone, getdown, actually it's not so much is it? I took the 7.5 before (of my brother in laws!) and it didn't knock me out that much.

I've called my Health Visitor this morning and left a message asking her for a recommendation to change doctors to (have been thinking about it anyway) but will probably go back to the same guy in two weeks just to see what he says next time. It's just a bit of a set back - I'd built up trust and opened up with my counsellor and then expected the same level of support at the GPs. Of course he doesn't know me and didn't know what to expect, and we had so little time, that it wasn't very nice.

I'm still confused. i don't know if I'm actually depressed or not. I have had this dilemma for years. I don't know if I'm depressed.

Sounds like a good idea to get a GP recommendation from the HV, arcadia.

It's so hard to know with the "am I depressed?" thing isn't it...

becky has often said the same too. And I feel fine when I've been sleeping well, but if I've had an atrocious night I tick all the boxes for depression

Even my CPN says, she never likes to say for sure with me, because one day I'll look classicly depressed (after a bad night) and the next I'll look bright as a button! (after a good night).

They don't seem to understand this fluctuation, you are either depressed or you're not, according to the health profession.

When I went to my psychiatrist last week I was in quite a good mood, and I think he would have quite happily discharged me there and then! However, if I'd have gone in on a bad day it would have been a totally different story.

The way I comprehend it, is if it's affecting my quality of life and day-to-day functioning, then it's a problem. If not, then I can deal with it and don't need any help.