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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ListeningQuietly · 29/10/2020 11:23

Morning all,

I had an email from BigChoc yesterday - because it looks like the new German lockdown will close her gym again Sad
both she and I are rather addicted to gym visits

Coffee
Once your system stops being used to the processed fats and sweeteners in a lot of catering meals
you find that they really are unpleasant
I barely eat fried food at all now (other than tempura) because my digestion cannot cope with it.

Fasting in cold weather
As you get leaner, you will need to wear more jumpers
and make drinks in a cup you can warm your hands up on
and remember WARM SOCKS
as you'll lose fat off your feet as well !

Well done on the SVs and NSVs

I'll learn everybody's names soon Grin

robertsmithscorpsebride · 29/10/2020 11:30

fantastic SVs harriet and kylie well done Smile

oh dear that is a shame for bcf but hopefully she will still get lots of Rhine walks in....

After saying I don't normally eat breakfast after a FD I was hungry enough this morning to have some berries and greek yogurt - hmmmmm - jinxed myself :) will have soup for lunch and then I think some kind of pasta bake thing for dinner....

KylieKoKo · 29/10/2020 11:41

Say hello from me @ListeningQuietly!

I really hope the gym doesn't shut here. I attempted to excercise at home during lockdown but I just couldn't get into it which partially explains weight gain!

Coffeeandcookies · 29/10/2020 12:00

Well done Kylie, that is great progress!!

Listening, that is so true, for the first time ever in my life I'm feeling the cold and have just bought myself lovely thermal socks!! Couldn't understand why my feet were starting to feel so much colder all the time, have realised I must have carried more fat in them than I knew!! 😂

ListeningQuietly · 29/10/2020 12:04

Coffee
Feet shrinking is one of the oddities of weight loss - people do not expect to drop a shoe size for every couple of stone they lose !

Jewellery is another - I dropped two ring sizes when I lost weight.
DH lost 1 1/2 inches around his neck.

For those suffering with being colder I can heartily recommend the ski under layers from Decathlon - cheap, light, and SO SO warm.

harriethoyle · 29/10/2020 12:13

That's fantastic @KylieKoKo and great proof that this WOL is so sustainable!

Say hi to @BigChocFrenzy for me @ListeningQuietly

Coffeeandcookies · 29/10/2020 12:20

Changed my lunch plan from yoghurt and berries to scrambled eggs as I was feeling cold and wanted a warm meal. Hot coffee in my hands now, following all your advice Listening!

Please do pass our love on to BigChoc, sorry to hear her gym visits will be curtailed.

Bottl · 29/10/2020 12:52

@robertsmithscorpsebride oops, at jinxing yourself Grin. I had coffee, toast and marmite. Yum!
@harriethoyle - that sounds tasty...I have no idea what 80g or 100g actually looks like Blush. Well done on the sv
@moonlight1705 - glad you enjoyed you lunch on Tuesday and good luck for today's fast.
@KylieKoKo - great sv and well done for resisting last night.

Bottl · 29/10/2020 12:55

@ListeningQuietly - funny you should say that about losing fat from your feet. I was thinking this morning that my Fitbit feels looser on my wrist and maybe that's where I'm losing weight from first Grin and then remembered when I lost weight previously I went down pretty much a full shoe size.
Sorry to hear BigChoc's gym is closing Sad I haven't been able to swim since March, after previously swimming 5 mornings a week before work. This is the one thing I've really missed through lockdown.

KylieKoKo · 29/10/2020 13:10

@moonlight1705

I am in awe of you fasting while on holiday!

ListeningQuietly · 29/10/2020 13:49

Moonlight fasting on holiday is hard core. I never managed that.

Bottl My pool is open. I swam this morning. I am dreading if they close again as I think a lot will go bust.

moonlight1705 · 29/10/2020 13:57

listening it is more time off work rather than holiday. So far we have fixed our outside light, tidied the garage, put away the sandpit, done some gardening and I've
I've written two of my four assignments due in on 8th Nov.

We did watch 1917 film with popcorn yesterday though as a treat. Smile

Bottl · 29/10/2020 14:35

Listening - my local one reopened but with new opening times of 8-6...I work 7.30-6 Sad. Then the borough it's in went into local lockdown so they closed and now all of Wales in in lockdown. Goodness knows what will happen at the end of these two weeks. My swim buddy has already said she's not sure she'll be able to go back to the early morning swims so I might be going solo if and when they do let me back in!!

ListeningQuietly · 29/10/2020 14:51

Bottl
Its really tough with the gyms and leisure centres.
The UK has an epidemic of obesity which is killing many times more than the current pandemic week in, week out.
Admittedly only eating less leads to stable weight loss
but getting and staying fit is key to long term health.
I hope that more people start to look after themselves when life settles down again.

Bottl · 29/10/2020 15:03

It's certainly given me a swift kick up my size 18 bum!!

I've replaced swimming with extra walking since school went back in September but it doesn't give the same feeling of accomplishment as the swimming did.

Hopefully, in January, I'll have three mornings off per week and plan to swim at least two of those, probably 3 if I can get to the pool and back in time.

ListeningQuietly · 29/10/2020 15:31

Bottl
Have you tried yoga or pilates at home ?
If you go for stuff like BodyBalance its a pretty good workout that helps get / keep everything toned.

Bottl · 29/10/2020 15:36

I've just been looking online (unsuccessfully) to see if I can find any rl classes but I think online might be the way forward for now.

I heard a rumour the Pilates teacher I used to have had been doing online classes through lockdown so I'm going to have a look to see if I can find any of those.

Darker · 29/10/2020 16:14

My local pools are not open yet. I'm trying to walk 10,000 steps a day... It's fine and I like walking but would like to be swimming again. I did a month of yoga every day as a challenge which was fab but I also need to get out of the house.

Bottl · 29/10/2020 19:10

Ooh, a month of yoga sounds like a good challenge.
Ds and I have just been out to make up the rest of my 10,000 steps for today. I wouldn't normally bother but feeling like I need to try a bit harder and he hasn't left the house since Monday or Tuesday.
FD tomorrow...anyone else?

ListeningQuietly · 29/10/2020 19:24

Darker
Have you seen the mad people who do a sun salutation in the snow

actually that could be a fun challenge for the whole 5:2 crew over the next month.

Go outdoors somewhere, anywhere, but outside
and do a sun salutation - just one each side
and then walk home / go back indoors

it will do us all good to make sure we go outdoors each day
and do something different each day

I'll do mine tomorrow morning and take a picture of my feet to prove it Wink

Coffeeandcookies · 29/10/2020 21:10

I'm fasting tomorrow Bottl, menu is planned and I'm good to go!!

Anyone else fasting tomorrow?

ListeningQuietly · 29/10/2020 21:58

I just wanted to say
I'm not BigChocFrenzy
She and I are very, very different people
but we both utterly believe in 5:2
our approaches are different
but our goal is the same.
You miss her, I miss her, but we can pull through together.
If you do not like my approach, PM me and we can adjust the tone
but I'd like as many as possible to feel welcome on these threads
for the next 8 years
as we have been on the last 8

moonlight1705 · 29/10/2020 22:10

Evening, just to check in that I did 563 today so feeling chuffed at such a good day.

Anyway, may try weighing tomorrow and see what happens.

Bottl · 30/10/2020 05:10

Well done on your FD, @moonlight1705 and good luck for your weigh in.

@ListeningQuietly - I'm going to have to Google 'sun salutation' or is it literally what it says?

I am grateful to you for stepping in the way you have. I appreciate the time it takes to offer such support and advice on these threads.

I'm awake early again but have the day off so toying with the idea of getting up, getting some chores done and then pencilling in a nanna nap later on Grin

Petronelle · 30/10/2020 06:21

Good morning everyone. I am so grateful that you are here. Listening and thank you for stepping in. I had a takeaway last night if rice and tofu curry and it was delicious. With some tumeric chicken wings I probably ate a little more than I planned but not as much as I could have. I am having a small portion of leftovers for lunch. Friday is fish and chips night in our house but instead of my usual breaded fish I am having swordfish instead. Small steps 🙂. Hope everyone has a good day.