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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
KylieKoKo · 28/10/2020 18:31

@Bottl I've had loads today.

I think the only things that would truly satisfy me at the moment a plate of hot chips or a Greggs pasty!

robertsmithscorpsebride · 28/10/2020 20:12

Just popping on quickly to say fd finished on 560, just jumping in a hot bath as I am sodding freezing 🥶🥶🥶🥶

harriethoyle · 28/10/2020 20:17

Kitchen closed on 549. And all I want having caught up on the thread is SNACKS Grin

Made my packed lunch for the next 2 days so I can keep count of those calories and ignore dinner ones tomorrow night! Wine

robertsmithscorpsebride · 28/10/2020 21:01

Well done kylie and harriet and all the others fasting today.

I wish I was like you listening but perimenopause really does have an effect on my appetite and willpower.

Enjoy your dinner with your friend harriet
Nfd tomorrow then fd#2 on Friday, I was debating having a B2B tomorrow but I need a fri fd to curb any wine indulgence, although I am off with ds so maybe not the best plan!

Cheeeeislifenow · 28/10/2020 21:07

Hello, check it in to keep accountable! NFD today, skipped brekkie and had my vitamins and coffee, for lunch I had a three egg omelette with cheese and salami, it was delish, for dinner was egg fried rice (homemade)!
No snacking for me, yay! Lots of water drank too, I have a lot of bloat to get rid of so I'm hoping to lose that soon a FD for me tomorrow, I am trying to plan my food, think I'll have a salad at lunch but have to food shop as well ,always tough on a FD, also will be getting halloween treats for the kids yikes 😕 it's hard being a home at midterm and the kids want to bake etc..

ListeningQuietly · 28/10/2020 21:46

have to food shop as well ,always tough on a FD
before you go to the shop make sure you drink LOADS of water
that way you'll feel full while walking up and down

S0RCHA · 28/10/2020 21:57

Good evening all. Well done to all yous fasters... 👌🏼 @robertsmithscorpsebride hopefully heated up now 😏
NFD for me today, done well until I had some choc after dinner 😔 will try pull it back tomorrow though. 🤞🏼

Cheeeeislifenow · 28/10/2020 22:01

Thank youb@listening, good tip!

Coffeeandcookies · 28/10/2020 22:56

Does anyone else find that eating rubbish food makes them feel unwell?

I've been eating sensibly and healthily over the last few months, but today I was unexpectedly out of the house all day and hadn't sorted food. Stopped at a cafe to supposedly grab a salad, but due to lockdown restrictions they only had a limited menu for takeout and I ended up ordering a chicken goujon wrap which came with a large side of fries. I'm slightly ashamed to admit I also had a slice of cake and coffee...

Anyhow, confession over, but this evening I have felt rotten! Sore stomach, feeling queasy and shaky, generally a bit rubbish. I'm convinced it was because I overloaded my system with crap food. Does anyone else ever experience this?

On the plus side it does mean I haven't eaten anything else and am not hungry at all.

Cheeeeislifenow · 28/10/2020 23:10

Absolutely coffee it's the carbs for me, I can ignore it and push through it and I get used to feeling like that and I forget what it feels like to feel good. I also have psoriatic arthritis and I definitely notice massive issues the more sugar I eat.

KylieKoKo · 28/10/2020 23:39

@Coffeeandcookies you have no idea how jealous I am of your meal in my fasted, pre menstual state. It sounds amazing.

Coffeeandcookies · 28/10/2020 23:51

It felt good at the time, but about 2 hours later I felt as sick as a dog. Probably a good thing though as I'll not be tempted to be such a pig the next time! 😂

I did add my calories into MFP and due to not having eaten anything else all day I'm not much over my TDEE. I promise I'll be good tomorrow!!

Darker · 29/10/2020 00:04

Good FD today. It really is fabulous going to bed a bit hungry knowing that you can eat normally the next day.

Bottl · 29/10/2020 05:45

Morning 5:2ers!
Love the post-FD early waking. It's like Christmas morning as a child except instead of waiting to see if he's been, I'm waiting for breakfast Grin

Bottl · 29/10/2020 05:58

@Coffeeandcookies - I've experienced that before. Hope you feel better now.
@KylieKoKo - did you manage to resist and get some sleep?
@Cheeeeislifenow - I find the bloating reduces considerably and quickly on 5:2.
@robertsmithscorpsebride - I'm the same, nfd today, FD tomorrow. What's on your nfd menu?
@harriethoyle - that's organised, making your packed lunches - what did you make?
@ListeningQuietly - how are you finding your new role as 5:2 guru? Any word from BigChoc? I hope she's doing ok.

Petronelle · 29/10/2020 06:11

Good morning everyone and thank you for the welcome back messages. I didn't sign on yesterday because I was busy all day but am going to try to do it every day to help keep the focus. This week is a breaking it in week so only one FD. Yesterday was a light day rather than a FD. I had toast about 11 and a big bowl of veg soup at 1 with a slice of bread. Dinner was lentil Dahl and a nan. I did eat 2 mini KitKat Santas and a thin slice of cake but overall happy with calories consumed but i probably had too many carbs. Today I will try and keep it light for lunch as we are having a take away this evening.

Reading back I am sad to see Big Choc had to step away. She is such an amazing support. Glad you are back Listening. I remember you from my previous time on here.

Bottl · 29/10/2020 06:30

@Petronelle - good luck settling back in. Your menu yesterday sounds tasty! I'm happy to be back into soup season - felt good to dust off the soup maker yesterday Grin

Coffeeandcookies · 29/10/2020 08:15

NFD here today, fasting tomorrow. Planned menu today is porridge for breakfast, Greek yoghurt and berries for lunch and chicken steak with salad for dinner. Meeting a friend for a long walk this afternoon which will hopefully burn a few calories, though probably more from the gossiping than from the walking I suspect!! 😂

robertsmithscorpsebride · 29/10/2020 08:17

coffee yes indeed, too much junk makes me feel rotten and yet I will still overindulge 😳

Ha ha bottl what's for breakfast? I never feel hungry the day after a fd so usually go until lunch. No clue what we are having today though, dh is cooking as he's off with ds today. I bet he suggests take out (lazy git!)

Have a good day everyone Grin

robertsmithscorpsebride · 29/10/2020 08:19

Ooh coffee your day, both food and activity, sounds wonderful 😁 enjoy

harriethoyle · 29/10/2020 09:29

@Bottl I made a pasta salad, with tuna, sweetcorn and pesto. Comes in at c.500 cals because I made too much pasta - next week I'll only measure 80g/day as opposed to 100g because 100g is a MASSIVE portion...

Another 0/5kg off this week though which I'm more than happy with - that's the all inclusive holiday weight gone! Going to focus on not having too many blow outs in the next couple of weeks so that I am consistently losing each week rather than maintaining because all my FD's are doing are getting off the weekend's indulgences! Starting tomorrow after tonight's pizza and wine fest ;-)

harriethoyle · 29/10/2020 09:29

0.5kg - not a fifth of a kilo!

moonlight1705 · 29/10/2020 09:57

Morning all, must try and catch up with all the comments! We'll done harriet on your half a kilo off.

Despite being on holiday I am doing a FD today. It is raining so DH and I are having a sort out home type of day. I've got soup planned for lunch and then jackets with beans and a tiny bit of cheese for dinner.

My Greek meze lunch was delicious on Tuesday and even went without wine so feeling good about that.

KylieKoKo · 29/10/2020 10:47

I have good news!

I weighed myself this morning and I was under 12 stone!11 stone 12.6 pounds to be exact. Admittedly at not quite 5 foot 4 it is still fairly chunky but that's 7.8 pounds off in 7 weeks. This is amazing to me as on non-fast days I have been drinking wine (not every NFD), have been out for meals and have even had a couple of packets of my beloved crisps.

KylieKoKo · 29/10/2020 10:49

@Bottl

Yes I stayed strong last night. DP has promised to make me scrambled eggs this morning and I am very much looking forward to eating those!