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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
justanotherremainer · 27/10/2020 18:54

Hi folks, i'm a periodic faster.

Getting back on it to lose a stone and a half which has appeared since March! I've lost a few pounds just cutting out crap, but I find there's nothing like the 5/2. Actually, when I don't do it, I miss the feeling of waking up after a fast day and feeling amazing!

So today i had one cup of tea, one cup of coffee, one herbal tea, small piece of cheese, 2 slices of ham and a few grapes for lunch (I don't usually bother on the 5/2), and just had two slices of home made smoked salmon and spinach frittata with a small salad for dinner. Lots of sparkling water, and will have an early night.

Those of you who exercise, can I ask how you get on if you exercise the morning after fast day?

Only a couple of hours left!

inthethickofit19 · 27/10/2020 20:01

Evening all

AF arrived and I'm trying v hard not to give in to chocolate 🍫. Really don't want to have a fast day tomorrow so I'm tucked up in bed.

cerealkillah · 27/10/2020 21:16

Second fast day for me tomorrow and I'm really looking forward to it. All my food is planned. I have a ready meal (only 303 cal) for dinner. I'm finding ready meals easy for planning.
I've also added Miso to my online shop for next week as it's only 20 calories.
I realised I'd miscounted the calories on Monday and had 600 not 800, so I'm happy with that.
Today has been good although I did binge on chocolate a bit.

Petronelle · 27/10/2020 22:34

Ok so not a bad day in the end. Had a cup of miso and 2 slices of ham at about 2 and dinner of pepperonata and one veggie sausage (gosh) at 7 followed by a cup of tea and one Nairns biscuit. Considering tea, coffe with milk etc. I con consumed between 500-600 cals today. I'll take that. 🙂

inthethickofit19 · 28/10/2020 07:13

I survived my night so FD complete - so pleased.

NFD today then another FD tomorrow.

Beautiful3 · 28/10/2020 07:39

Kids are off school this week, I've been eating some chocolate when I should have been fasting! Hoping that today will be a good fast day! Good luck Wednesday fasters!

ListeningQuietly · 28/10/2020 09:43

Beautiful
Regardless of whether its a FD or an NFD
NO SNACKING Grin

cerealkillah · 28/10/2020 11:33

Does fasting and non-fasting get easier? I only on day 3 of 5:2. I fasted Monday and am fasting today. Yesterday I was ok but did binge on chocolate a bit. Over time, do you find that on NFD you tend to eat less? I'm at the stage where I'm convinced I can eat what I like on a NFD.

KylieKoKo · 28/10/2020 12:00

I am fasting today, who is with me?

I am not sure I will make it through today as I am pretty hungry already and my period is due in 4 days and I get really hungry just before. I am going to have miso soup shortly.

ListeningQuietly · 28/10/2020 12:01

cereal
It gets much, much easier
as you train your body to be happy with the right amount of food

NFDs need to be based around your TDEE
not around the bad habits that led you to eating too much Smile

If you want really quick results, you aim NFDs for the sedentary TDEE of your happy weight
as that will be the amount you'll eat for years to come

KylieKoKo · 28/10/2020 12:11

@cerealkillah

Apart from today as I am pre-menstrual fasting has got easier as I have got used to it and learned what foods are tasty, low calories and satiating.

Bottl · 28/10/2020 13:16

Hi everyone.
FD for me too. Also dealing with half term - got 3 minded children today, the weather has been horrendous (yellow weather warning for rain) and we're in full lockdown. Everyone came with their wet weather gear so we've had a 3hr walk, hitting 10,000 steps just as we arrived home.
I've got carrot and coriander soup in the machine and am willing it to cook faster than it's taking Grin. I wasn't actually hungry until I could smell the garlic cooking.

Bottl · 28/10/2020 13:16

@ListeningQuietly

Beautiful Regardless of whether its a FD or an NFD NO SNACKING Grin
I don't know why but that made me lol!! Grin
ListeningQuietly · 28/10/2020 14:29

it is true though Wink

Beautiful3 · 28/10/2020 15:16

Kitchen closed at 636. I agree with the no snacking rule, it's probably why I got fat in the first place! 😂

KylieKoKo · 28/10/2020 15:22

I agree with the no snacking rule in theory. It is a lot harder in practice when crisps exist.

cerealkillah · 28/10/2020 15:30

Thanks @ListeningQuietly that's really helpful about the TDEE.

As for snacking. That can be my downfall especially at the weekend. But on my FD so far I've actually been ok. I'm hungry, but I've not been tempted to snack.

ListeningQuietly · 28/10/2020 15:34

Snacking is a real problem and very much to be avoided if you can

give your system a break between meals

Bottl · 28/10/2020 15:38

@ListeningQuietly

it is true though Wink
Yes, it is and is one of the key tips I've gleaned from these threads. Another is that hunger doesn't grow, it comes in waves and passes really quickly.
KylieKoKo · 28/10/2020 15:45

I think there's a lot of conflicting information about on snacking, with lots of well meaning people believing they need to eat 6 mini meals a day or their metabolism will grind to a halt. The reality is that constant snacking is a relatively new thing and people are getting fatter and fatter. Also, most (delicious) snack food is high in calories and is not particularly satiating.

ListeningQuietly · 28/10/2020 15:49

Kylie
If you go back to the early threads - and the reason BigChoc put the scientific links into the OP ...

the food industry has a HUGE vested interest in making us eat more
and more processed stuff

snacking between meals basically did not exist until the 70's

the concept of kids needing a snack as they are collected from the school gate is pure marketing, not nutrition.

When I did WW years ago the lovely leader lady was really strict about getting us to have a glass of water before every meal - to make sure we were not in fact thirsty

guess what .... we were

KylieKoKo · 28/10/2020 16:40

@ListeningQuietly

Kylie If you go back to the early threads - and the reason BigChoc put the scientific links into the OP ...

the food industry has a HUGE vested interest in making us eat more
and more processed stuff

snacking between meals basically did not exist until the 70's

the concept of kids needing a snack as they are collected from the school gate is pure marketing, not nutrition.

When I did WW years ago the lovely leader lady was really strict about getting us to have a glass of water before every meal - to make sure we were not in fact thirsty

guess what .... we were

I agree @ListeningQuietly

There is a huge market in selling us (delicious) processed nutritionally devoid food to eat on top of our meals. I remember thinking that my mum was mean when my afterschool snack was one biscuit and a piece of fruit if I wanted it when my friend's mum let her have endless crisps, chocolate and cake and then have chips for dinner. I am still friends with her and she struggles massively with her weight to this day. Sadly, I think that if she doesn't get a handle on it soon she will become quite ill.

KylieKoKo · 28/10/2020 18:10

Kitchen closed on 529.

But as I'm premenstrual and feeling very hungry today I might have a slice of ham and a babybel later if I'm too hungry to sleep properly.

Bottl · 28/10/2020 18:17

Could you have a hot drink, @KylieKoKo? I find that quite satiating

ListeningQuietly · 28/10/2020 18:30

Advantages of being old : Menopause Grin

I admit though that even when I was younger I did not notice either my weight or appetite fluctuating during the month.
Maybe you youngsters are just much more aware of such things that we were.
Mirena has its uses too Wink

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