Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
cerealkillah · 14/12/2020 18:43

@MazDazzle how does a B2B work? How many calories do you have over both days?
I had my best FD so far today. I weighed everything and did not snack. Kitchen has closed at 495. I've never gone under 500 before.

harriethoyle · 14/12/2020 18:55

@MazDazzle I'm joining you in a b2b. Kitchen is closing here on 696 with a 588 calorie plan for tomorrow. I've been busy today and will be tomorrow so hopefully that will help. Planning on a bath tonight to warm myself up!

@cerealkillah a back to back means you get 1300 calories to use over the two days. Either 500 + 800 or 650 + 650 etc. No more than 800 cals on one of the days but that's the only rule

harriethoyle · 14/12/2020 18:56

And @cerealkillah well done on your excellent FD!

KylieKoKo · 14/12/2020 19:50

I'm reluctantly fasting tomorrow. I'm off work this week and I feel like I should be stuffing my face for Christmas already! But that mentality is what made me fat so I'm trying to be better.

inthethickofit19 · 15/12/2020 08:13

Hi all

I keep falling off the wagon and have been losing and putting the same pounds on again.

I suppose the positive is that the weight hasn't crept up..

Anyway I tried taking some supplements to boost loss and all that's happened is that I'm a bit constipated, my shape has indeeed changed a little but I've not managed to do any fast days like I had planned to.

So I'm cutting down the supplements and going to try get things moving in bowel department and then I hope to join you on Thursday.

Well done to all of you who have really stuck it out !

Darker · 15/12/2020 08:28

It’s getting harder to do fast days with Christmas coming up. The fridge is heaving and there is so much pressure and persuasion to eat treats, —especially with bugger all else to do—

inthethickofit19 · 15/12/2020 08:34

@ListeningQuietly how are you and how is BCF?

KylieKoKo · 15/12/2020 08:50

@darker, I know exactly as what you mean. There's so much temptation around and a feeling of fuck it it's Christmas.

On top of that we're going into tier 3 tomorrow and DP thinks we should go out for dinner while we still can so that might ruin my fast.

cerealkillah · 15/12/2020 09:08

Thanks @harriethoyle I might try some B2B days in the New Year.

Well done to everyone managing to stick to it at the moment. It's so difficult, isn't it?

ListeningQuietly · 15/12/2020 12:52

Hi there inthethick
BigChoc was very pleased with the US Electoral College outcome (she's into world politics as well as fitness and 5:2)

My weight is stable and I'm being REALLY strict with
NO SNACKING
which For EVERYBODY is the way to get through the festive season.

Fine, have a sausage roll, mince pie, cheese straw frenzy
but its INSTEAD of lunch
not as well as Grin

I only meal plan one significant meal per day through Christmas as there is always enough licking around to make up the rest of the calories!

Also think 16;8 every day if you can
you'll sleep better if not too stuffed

MazDazzle · 15/12/2020 12:53

I find I’m not that hungry the day after a FD, so I either do b2b or a mini of -1000. I often find the second day easier than the first. I’ve even managed a b2b followed by a mini. Then I’m free for the rest of the week.

We have an open tub of Quality Street sitting on the coffee table. Thankfully, I had a few on my NFD and was disappointed. Far too sickly and sweet. Although the toffee finger was nice.

harriethoyle · 15/12/2020 13:42

@MazDazzle I'm a Roses girl. I don't like the quality street chocolate...

I'm HUNGRY today. Just finished my sandwich and already thinking longingly about tea which is at least 4 and a half hours away Grin but I'm busy again which really helps.

KylieKoKo · 15/12/2020 14:06

I've decided to be strong and fast today.

So far I've had coffee and water and done a hiit class. I'm going to distract myself with housework and have a Miso soup and salad and then I have mackerel and veg for dinner.

KylieKoKo · 15/12/2020 17:46

I've had my evening meal and feel distinctly unsatisfied. Is anyone else struggling today?

harriethoyle · 15/12/2020 18:24

@KylieKoKo YES. Almost cracked and ate toast when I was waiting for my broccoli to cook...! Have now got a diet coke on the go and am telling myself sternly that there's only 3.5 hours til bed. And then it's breakfast time!!

KylieKoKo · 15/12/2020 18:26

@harriethoyle I want chips and a glass of red

harriethoyle · 15/12/2020 18:37

I am REALLY craving carbs tonight @KylieKoKo . Tbf that's the case most days!

KylieKoKo · 15/12/2020 19:04

@harriethoyle I feel like my mind has gone into Christmas mode and I feel like drinking and eating unhealthy food. My second fast this week is Thursday and I'm already dreading it! I haven't even finished this one yet.

KateMAB · 15/12/2020 19:06

School Christmas Dinner was lovely, planning my first B2B tomorrow and Thursday.

harriethoyle · 15/12/2020 19:38

Yep I totally get that @KylieKoKo particularly this year when there's been none of the usual parties etc. I feel like I deserve a family tub of Roses ALL TO MYSELF! Grin

I've got in the bath to distract myself and tried on a couple of my skinniest dresses to remind myself WHY I am doing this..!!

harriethoyle · 15/12/2020 19:39

Good luck.@KateMAB! What have you got planned for your b2b?

MazDazzle · 15/12/2020 20:20

DH has poured himself a large glass of red. We’re watching The Great British Menu. Why do I torture myself? My stomach has tumbled loudly all day today. Looking forward to bed. My youngest was up half the night. Today he’s been like a hurricane tearing round the house. Typical!

KylieKoKo · 15/12/2020 20:42

@mazdazzle that sounds torturous

MazDazzle · 15/12/2020 20:46

rumbled

Tumbling tummies is quite the image!

KateMAB · 15/12/2020 21:14

@harriethoyle I'm planning poached eggs for breakfast, a chicken Oxo cube for lunch and then salmon and veg for Wed night and veggie soup on Thurs.