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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
harriethoyle · 10/12/2020 10:35

Fabulous @MazDazzle and @KylieKoKo

The scales this morning tell me I've lost 8.1kg since January... Happy with that! Might even sneak that little .9kg off before Christmas with a following wind!

moonlight1705 · 10/12/2020 11:47

Wow @KylieKoKo @MazDazzle and @harriethoyle you are all amazing with those loses. You all have such good motivation and will power.

I feel like a bit of a cheating idiot as I have spent a year not losing a thing - although I haven't put any on either so guess that is ok. I've fluctuated between 116kg and 118kg throughout the whole year Sad

I just don't know where to go from here except keep plodding on with it in the hopes one day it might click in my head.

I am on a FD today but think it is going to be a mini anyway as I ended up having a small bowl of cereal as breakfast as I was so hungry. I've got soup for lunch.

harriethoyle · 10/12/2020 11:57

@moonlight1705 in the context of this year, that's a win. I have a couple of dear friends who have put on stones during lockdown and are now trying to get them off... that you didn't do that is a victory in my view!

KylieKoKo · 10/12/2020 12:06

@moonlight1705 if you were previously gaining weight then not losing is progress.

Also, I actually find that cereal makes me hungrier a couple of hours after eating and I am full for much longer if I have a boiled egg.

KylieKoKo · 10/12/2020 12:06

@moonlight1705 what I meant was staying at a constant weight is progress.

ListeningQuietly · 10/12/2020 12:08

ginsparkles
I do not do sourdough - just ordinary dough in the breadmaker and then build from there.

I had an email from BigChocFrenzy today.
She is struggling with this lockdown because in her part of Germany
the bars and restaurants and cafes are staying closed
and her gym is shut so its Zoom and weights in her lounge.
She's also not able to have long walks by the river as its dark and cold.

But she sends her best to everybody.

KylieKoKo · 10/12/2020 13:52

Poor BigChoc, please tell her I am thinking of her.

I am ravenous today after b2b fasting.
DP kindly made me a bacon sandwich for breakfast and I have just had a feta, tomato and spinach omelette and I am going out for dinner tonight. I hope I don't eat back my deficit in one da !
I really want some toast but will try to resist as I will be eating a lot later.

I did do a HIIT class which will hopefully offset it a bit.

MazDazzle · 10/12/2020 15:13

That sounds really tough! Please tell her we’re all thinking of her.

harriethoyle · 10/12/2020 18:08

Big love to BigChoc from me xx

KateMAB · 10/12/2020 19:32

Kitchen closed at 502. Early night tonight

moonlight1705 · 10/12/2020 21:25

Managed to rein in the extra food and got to 721 today.

Tell BigChoc we all miss her and hope she gets back to her lovely gym soon.

Coffeeandcookies · 10/12/2020 22:47

Please do pass our love on to BigChoc, it sounds like things are difficult in her area at the minute.

I had an unplanned FD today. Things have been totally crazy at work this last fortnight and my meal planning has gone out the window as I've been really flat out, ended up grabbing meals and snacks without counting calories and didn't keep track.

Had such a heavy workload this morning I got to 2pm before I realised I hadn't eaten anything, so decided to take advantage of that and make today a FD. Finished on 508.

Not sure how tomorrow will be at work, but if it's going to be as crazy as today I might end up with an unexpected b2b. Not planning anything further than a bath and bed now though! Night everyone!

KateMAB · 11/12/2020 07:35

Stayed the same on the scales this week, but given the amount of nibbles in school atm I'll take it as a win

MazDazzle · 11/12/2020 08:16

I feel like a bit of a fraud too moonlight. Three years ago I was comfortably sitting just above goal, then slowly I crept up and up. I lost/gained the same 10lbs I don’t know how many times. Then in lockdown my weight rocketed (by almost 2 stone!). I was unrecognisable. I’ve finally managed to shift that gain and I’m back in the extra 10lb zone. You’ve done really well to stay where you are this year.

KylieKoKo · 11/12/2020 11:31

@mazdazzle you are definitely not a fraud if you've lost 2 stone!

ListeningQuietly · 11/12/2020 13:27

0.5kg down this week
not great but better than nothing

Maz shifting two stone is ALWAYS a success

KylieKoKo · 11/12/2020 14:58

Well done on your weight-loss @listeningquietly
I think 0.5 kg in a week is fine. It all adds up.

harriethoyle · 11/12/2020 15:22

@ListeningQuietly .5kg a week is 2kg a month which is 24kg in a year!

ListeningQuietly · 11/12/2020 17:16

I have very little I need to lose
(my BMI is under 23)
but I'm lightly built so look and feel better at the lower end of the range.

I know exactly what keeps my weight up ( Wine Gin [cheese] )
so being on here gives me a conscience Wink

harriethoyle · 12/12/2020 08:44

@ListeningQuietly if you have a nearby lidl, check out the cremant de loire. SO GOOD! Wine

ListeningQuietly · 12/12/2020 16:25

Oooh, Cremant, yup, wonderful stuff.
I LOVE Lidl Smile

ListeningQuietly · 14/12/2020 13:28

How is everybody doing today?

I had nice morning at the gym and then a small hummus wrap for lunch.
Salad for supper tonight
after the excess of the weekend Smile

MazDazzle · 14/12/2020 17:17

Feels good to fast today after a hectic few days.

Planning on b2b today and tomorrow.

Darker · 14/12/2020 17:33

Sort of fasting today... also starting to prep for Christmas which has involved a bit of recipe testing in advance of vegetarian son coming home. Today its a nut roast. I have eaten nothing all day so that I can have a slice.

KateMAB · 14/12/2020 17:36

My FD plans for tomorrow have gone out the window as Christmas Dinner day at school has been moved forward as we are closing early. On the plus side my Christmas jumper is a much better fit than the last time I wore it

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