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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ListeningQuietly · 09/12/2020 13:06

I never eat before going to the gym
no matter how hard I plan to exercise
I then eat a SMALL meal afterwards
and if I'm starving an hour later, have a piece of fruit

and more tea !

KylieKoKo · 09/12/2020 13:32

NSV! I hadn't seen the instructor leading the class since before lockdown 2.0 and she noticed my weight-loss! I'm really pleased because although the scale and my clothes are telling me I've lost weight I find it hard to see it in the mirror!

@ListeningQuietly I was a bit scared to risk not eating anything before the gym on the second day of my first b2b fast but I think I would have been ok not to as I actually feel pretty good.

ListeningQuietly · 09/12/2020 13:52

Kylie
If the instructor noticed enough to comment positively then you are DOING REALLY WELL as they are always wary about such comments

KylieKoKo · 09/12/2020 13:59

Weirdly I am boiling @harriethoyle bit I think it is from my gym class and the cycle home and I will be freezing in a 10 minutes once that's worn off!

@ListeningQuietly she was careful with her words. She said I looked fantastic and fit and didn't mention weight-loss til I did.

It is nice to know it is visible to others even if it's not to me.

ginsparkles · 09/12/2020 14:14

I'm sooo cold today too! I wish I had socks and books on instead of crazy high heels!!!

But still on just a hot chocolate. Nearly there!! I'm so looking forward to tomorrow!!

ginsparkles · 09/12/2020 14:14

@KylieKoKo what a fab NSV!! Well done you!

KateMAB · 09/12/2020 17:27

Lovely nsv @KylieKoKo

harriethoyle · 09/12/2020 18:42

Fabulous @KylieKoKo! Well done Flowers. How have you found your b2b today?

Kitchen closing here on 676. I hope Hmm Already looking forward to breakfast tomorrow!

KylieKoKo · 09/12/2020 18:48

Weirdly not to bad @harriethoyle. I'm on 770 now and feeling pretty full as most of those calories were in the evening meal I just ate. I have always been a bit scared of b2b fasting but it's not been too bad at all.

I'm going out for dinner tomorrow so I will enjoy my food and wine without guilt Smile

harriethoyle · 09/12/2020 18:54

That's great, it really makes the week more flexible if you know you can b2b 2 days

MazDazzle · 09/12/2020 19:21

Had a mini-FD today after my b2b. Didn’t have anything all day (getting used to not eating at work), then had the last of my chorizo stew for dinner, a couple of ginger biscuits and a bag of crisps. Came in at under 900 cals. Pleased with that, although I know that the biscuits and crisps weren’t the best choice. At least I had them with a meal though and didn’t snack!

ginsparkles · 09/12/2020 19:32

Kitchen closing on 582 for me today .... if I eat my advent chocolate! If I resist I save myself 50cals!!! Will see how the evening goes. Torturing myself with watching the great British menu. Why oh why do I watch cooking programmes on a fast day Grin

harriethoyle · 09/12/2020 20:25

@ginsparkles I ALWAYS end up doing that 😂 I just fall down an Instagram cooking block hole!

ginsparkles · 09/12/2020 20:26

@harriethoyle why do we do it?!!!

KylieKoKo · 09/12/2020 20:55

@harriethoyle @ginsparkles In my pre-menstrual fast I found myself browsing recipes which was like torture!

harriethoyle · 09/12/2020 21:15

I've been looking at the menu of my favourite pizza place now. Texted my DF and he's promised we can get a takeaway next week. I LOVE HIM SO 😂

ListeningQuietly · 09/12/2020 21:25

I admit I loathe takeaway pizza
goodness knows what they put in the dough but inIreland they legally count as cake

Curry : a good hit of vegetables and dahl is lush
Japanese / Vietnamese - cannot go wrong
Chinese - avoid deep fried, load up the veg
Chip shop : I admit I get a doner with LOADS of salad

one takeaway per fortnight
with thought
is fine

harriethoyle · 09/12/2020 21:50

This is artisan sourdough hipster wanker goodness, never fear 😂

ListeningQuietly · 09/12/2020 21:58
Wink we make our own from scratch dough etc long standing family ritual
harriethoyle · 09/12/2020 22:10

Funnily enough we did it loads with the kids over lockdown and they loved it - the little one even started doing it herself at her mums!

ginsparkles · 09/12/2020 22:32

@ListeningQuietly I really fancy having a go at making my own sour dough! But haven't a clue where to begin!!!

MazDazzle · 10/12/2020 06:50

I’m 1.5lb down this week. Grin

Only half a pound away from my -5lb before Christmas mini goal. I might even surpass it!

The weekend starts here! I’m going out for lunch with DH. I can’t wait. It’s out favourite place and we haven’t been since March.

Then we’re catching up with some friends over the weekend, which will probably involve some treats so I need to make sure I’m back on track on Monday.

Have a great weekend everyone!

KateMAB · 10/12/2020 07:46

Sounds lovely @MazDazzle
FD here, got my workout done and heading to work I will resist the chocolate in the classroom cupboard

KylieKoKo · 10/12/2020 08:49

Well done @MazDazzle

KylieKoKo · 10/12/2020 09:38

I've just weighed in at my pre-covid weight! Which means I've now lost 12.2 pounds!

I'm still overweight mind but this was my first goal. I need to lose around another stone for a healthy bmi of 25 but that actually sounds possible now whereas before I was convinced that this was just my "natural weight" (which I now think doesn't exist).