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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 13:24

@listeningquietly you're very brave for using it in this weather!

I'm about to start my lunch break and will have a hot bath instead of eating.

Bottl · 08/12/2020 13:31

Ours reopened but now opens at 8am instead of 6am which is too late for me unfortunately. And they've stopped you from doing backstroke which is the only one I can do fast Sad

KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 13:46

@bottl what on earth is the logic behind banning backstroke?

Bottl · 08/12/2020 13:53

I think it's incase you bump into someone but the lanes are restricted in numbers anyway so I do think it's a bloody stupid rule Hmm

moonlight1705 · 08/12/2020 14:02

How odd to ban backstroke, I love doing that although haven't been to our local pool is ages. Bit jealous of the heated outdoor pool.

I'm fasting but keeping warm by shifting all the bloody decorations from the garage and putting them up. I've put up the Christmas tree and it looks great from the front but just sat down and can see it from the side where there is a definite wonk!! Xmas Shock

Bottl · 08/12/2020 14:20

All the pools in the blue Pugh and neighbouring borough have done the same - I assumed it was part of their guidance but maybe it's just our weird council Grin

Good luck with your fast and your decorations. I've just asked ds to help with ours after I finish work later - he said maybe Hmm

KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 14:34

My warm bath really warmed me up. I'd recommend one to any other cold fasters

inthethickofit19 · 08/12/2020 17:01

Hey all,

Dropped off for a while but weight is not shifting without 5:2 so here I am BlushGrin

Ended up not eating till 4pm and had a baked potato beans and cheese - came to 400 Cals so thought why not.

Any ideas for a healthy 100 cal snack to top me up so I don't go on a binge tonight?

KateMAB · 08/12/2020 17:10

Hi all fasting here today too, currently sitting on the radiator to warm up, after popping up to the village shop.
I stay reasonably warm at work as I spend a lot of time sitting on the floor (underfloor heating) cuddling a small child who is like a little hot water bottle.

ListeningQuietly · 08/12/2020 17:24

Hi there inthethick

I hopped on the scales this morning and they told me I'd not gained or lost during the lockdown
so I am still stubbornly 5 kg heavier than I should be

snacks -
hard boiled egg?
scrambled egg ?
hummus and carrot sticks ?
a handful of raisins or other dried fruit (not nuts)?

but if you can, no snacking
have a glass of water and a big mug of tea or coffee and surf the wave of hunger Smile

KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 19:13

I'm not sure if this counts as an nsv but I realised today that I've had some crisps in the cupboard for days and I forgot about them which NEVER happens. I don't even want them now as it's a fast day. I'd rather wait til my planned dinner is ready and eat that. This is very unusual for me.

MazDazzle · 08/12/2020 19:52

Well done on your crisp SV Kylie. How did your HIIT class go? When I worked out on a FD last week I was so cold once I put on my workout clothes that I put my pyjama top back on and wore it to the gym! My PT was admiring it. Grin

Kitchen closed here after my chorizo and lentil stew and an apple. Just out of the bath. Early bed for me tonight.

KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 20:20

Hiit was good thanks @mazdazzle. I never thought I'd be someone who enjoyed excercise!

harriethoyle · 08/12/2020 20:22

Kitchen closed here on 610 calories. Straight through to tea and because I was busy, it genuinely flew by!

Yes @KylieKoKo b2b means you can have 1300 calories over the two days. You can split them 500/800 or 650 per day. I tend to do the latter just because it's easier and sometimes I eat the same thing 2 days in a row because I'm lazy and it's easy Grin

moonlight1705 · 08/12/2020 20:28

Kitchen closed on 584 for me so feeling good and raring to go for a good non FD tomorrow.

KateMAB · 08/12/2020 20:33

Closed at 495, can't wait for my porridge tomorrow

KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 21:10

Thanks @harriethoyle

I will try for 800 tomorrow but will see how I feel. I haven't done back to back before so I am a bit apprehensive.

harriethoyle · 08/12/2020 21:21

,@KylieKoKo I don't know if you're a breakfast eater but if you could skip it, your day can easily be 16:8 and you've got the cals for a decent lunch and tea

KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 21:31

I'm not generally @harriethoyle but I'm going to a strength and conditioning class tomorrow lunchtime and am worried that not eating before that after a fast day might make things difficult. I was thinking of a boiled egg and an orange for breakfast as we have them anyway.

harriethoyle · 08/12/2020 21:55

Yes, good plan. I'd definitely breakfast before an exercise class.

harriethoyle · 09/12/2020 08:01

I have woken up absolutely RAVENOUS! FD is going to be hard today Blush

KylieKoKo · 09/12/2020 10:43

I am attempting my first b2b today, wish me luck!

I had under 500 yesterday so I have planned around 800 for today.
So far I have had a boiled egg and a black coffee. I will have an orange before my lunchtime gym class, then miso soup and salad for lunch.

I am saving most of my calories for this evening when I will b having garlic chicken with corn on the cob, brocolli and butternut squash and I have room for a babybel cheese (guilty pleasure, and a couple of extra miso soups if I need them.

I am hoping today isn't too painful! If I can hack back to back then it would make the diet even more flexible.

ginsparkles · 09/12/2020 11:47

Well done everyone for successful FD's yesterday!

Hope the fasters are going well today. I'm fasting but man is it testing my will power today. Absolutely lacking in motivation. Really want to get an extra one in the bag this week! So I will stay strong. I have a banana for lunch and some tangerines for later in the day as the shop is closing late tonight. Then I have a stir fry planned for later.

I think it will be more like a 600 cal day but I'll take that I think today!!! I need some customers to come and keep me busy!

Darker · 09/12/2020 12:19

The cold doesn't help. I am struggling too.

harriethoyle · 09/12/2020 12:27

It's fricking FREEZING. I'm sitting at my desk with cashmere socks on, cashmere jumper, massive wool blanket scarf thing and the heating on and I'm still cold! Have put a fishcake in the oven for lunch. Contemplating buying the ingredients for chilli tonight...

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