Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ginsparkles · 07/12/2020 13:42

Hi @Bottl .... I have always used light coconut milk in them but I'm sure DH has now adapted the recipe! Let me check with him how he does it and I'll update tonight (can you tell I'm not the chef in our house?!!!) Grin

ginsparkles · 07/12/2020 13:44

I'm fasting today too. Doing a 4:3 this week as I'm working lots! Had nothing so far (a cup of tea about an hour ago). I have a couple of small tangerines for later and tomato soup planned for tonight. But I am sooooooo cold!!!! Any tips to warm myself up??

Bottl · 07/12/2020 13:47

Thank you! No rush at all...I might have a go at the recipe I found in the meantime as I have all the ingredients (well, I have a mini tin of coconut milk instead of the 400g required so that'll knock a few cals off). And if I have mine with just veg instead of rice it'll be well within my allowance.

KylieKoKo · 07/12/2020 14:12

Arrgggh! I was meant to be fasting today and forgot and had a cheese and salami toastie! I've had a few days off work and forgot what day it is. I'll fast tomorrow instead. I was going to do Monday and Wednesday but not sure I can hack a back to back. I'll see how I feel on Wednesday morning.

MazDazzle · 07/12/2020 19:15

The only thing that warms me up on a FD gin is a bath.

FD for me today.

Made a stew with tinned tomatoes, lentils veg and some chorizo. Didn’t count the calories, but only had a small portion. First FD after 3 days of gluttony.

Hoping to go for a b2b tomorrow.

ListeningQuietly · 07/12/2020 19:31

Lots of tea and then a 'leftovers' spanish omelette for supper
and I'm finally warming up
(that and the fire is lit!)

harriethoyle · 07/12/2020 20:10

It's COLD tonight as well, which won't help you @ginsparkles

I'm definitely fasting tomorrow and possibly a b2b Wednesday. I'm busy workwise both days which will make them easier. Then a mini on Thursday, if all goes to plan 🤞

ginsparkles · 07/12/2020 20:15

@Bottl husband says he fries off some onions with garlic salt, add chopped tomatoes and either curry spice mix or a curry paste, lets it simmer for a bit, adds chick peas and then leaves to simmer with lid on for a little while. I have just a big bowl of that, he has his with rice.

ginsparkles · 07/12/2020 20:20

@harriethoyle .... it's been so cold today! Our shop has to have the door open at the moment because of COVID so it's really chilly! Might have a hot chocolate before bed to warm me up!

Currently on 360 for the day.

MazDazzle · 07/12/2020 20:31

I was just away to order some black dressy trousers, but thought I’d try on a pair I’ve had hanging in the wardrobe for ages. They fit! Grin

I think I’ve managed to shoehorn myself into them only twice since I bought them and the last time was a year ago.

ginsparkles · 07/12/2020 20:38

Yay!!!! Great news @MazDazzle !!!!

harriethoyle · 07/12/2020 20:41

Fabulous NSV @MazDazzle!

ListeningQuietly · 07/12/2020 20:44

Well done Maz

KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 11:26

After my failure yesterday I'm fasting today. Just had coffee and water so far. I'm not sure if/when second fast will happen this week as I have dinner plans on Thursday and dsds are coming for the weekend and j like to avoid diet talk/behaviour around them. I'm considering a b2b tomorrow. Am I right in thinking that slightly more calories are recommended for the second day of q b2b?

MazDazzle · 08/12/2020 11:38

Thank you!

I’m delighted.

I think it’s 650 cals each day Kylie, but I’m not 100% sure.

It’s the last week in my cycle, so the monthly bloat will be with me soon. I know I need to focus on eating well and drinking plenty of water over the next few days.

moonlight1705 · 08/12/2020 12:23

bottl I am exactly the same as you. I've been bouncing around the same 3kg for a year now because I do well and go back to basics for one week then I get bored and stop so put it back on another week.

Anyway this weekend, I have been pretty good at no snacking and had some lovely healthy meals. Doing my first FD of the week and have just finished a lovely warming chicken Noodle soup.

Back to Christmas decorating Xmas Grin

KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 12:37

I am so cold. I'm tempted to abandon my fast to warm myself up but I will try and stay strong. I'm drinking herbal tea to try and warm myself up.

Are any other fasters freezing?

ListeningQuietly · 08/12/2020 12:40

Kylie
Jump around. Burn calories to warm yourself up.
Even if you march on the spot while boiling the kettle.
When you get lean you will feel the cold a lot more
but that is what jumpers are for.
The best way to warm up is to carry stuff up the stairs one item at a time not using the hand rail
basically HEAT UP YOUR MUSCLES
Smile

Bottl · 08/12/2020 12:43

Fantastic NSV, @MazDazzle

@KylieKoKo - I was so cold yesterday, even when I was out walking uphill with a buggy! I hope you get through it.

@moonlight1705 - so frustrating isn't it. This is the most disciplined I've been with food for a few years (for more than a day!) so I feel I am making progress but also aware that what I'm doing is not enough.

KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 13:06

@ListeningQuietly

I have a HIIT class in a bit which will warm me up but the idea of removing my onesie, hoody, blanket and ski socks to put on exercise clothes is filling me with horror!

KylieKoKo · 08/12/2020 13:08

@bottl my planned evening meal is a very spicy bean and mushroom chilli which I hope will warm me up a bit!

ListeningQuietly · 08/12/2020 13:11

Kylie
I swim outdoors most mornings (heated pool but the air is cold)
getting cold can help generate brown fat which is a good thing

March on the spot for a couple of minutes and you'll warm up

Bottl · 08/12/2020 13:19

@KylieKoKo - that sounds like it'll do the trick, you've just got to get through until then!!

@ListeningQuietly - omg, an outdoor heated pool sounds like absolute heaven!!! I haven't been able to swim since March - used to swim 5 morning a week before work for the past 5 or 6 years. I miss it so much.

Bottl · 08/12/2020 13:20

It would be my first purchase if I ever won the lotto!!

ListeningQuietly · 08/12/2020 13:22

Bottl
It costs a lot to be a member but I do love it.
It makes me so sad how many pools have stayed shut because of COVID.
Hopefully most will re open next year.