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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ListeningQuietly · 02/12/2020 17:23

Luckily the Boditrax machine at the gym was broken this morning Wink
but a swim and two classes was wonderful
NFD so a little bit of scrambled egg on toast
supper I think will be Pad Thai
lots of exercise will get me back on the straight and narrow

Darker · 02/12/2020 17:35

My council pools have never reopened... I miss swimming.

ListeningQuietly · 02/12/2020 17:38

Darker
I read about the pools that are going to stay closed.
So sad.
Might be worth seeing if these people
www.placesleisure.org/
might be willing to take them on for your community

Darker · 03/12/2020 08:09

Thanks Listening. I think the contract has gone to another company but no sign of re-opening yet. It’s so sad.

I almost fell for the offer of a chocolate covered Brazil nut yesterday but remembered just in time. I hope it’s still there for me.

moonlight1705 · 03/12/2020 09:35

Morning - who is joining me for a FD today? Nice warm tuscan chicken soup for lunch and jacket potato with beans for dinner.

Going to be busy at work but have not got any snacks and too busy to even think about the shops so I should be set for a good day.

Well done Darker on resisting the chocolaty goodness.

ListeningQuietly · 03/12/2020 17:18

Hi moonlight
I fasted by accident - a banana and 75g of cottage cheese so far today - and a decent workout at the gym
but having warming food tonight
daughter is cooking butternut squash risotto

KateMAB · 03/12/2020 20:05

FD here too. Finished up 520. Had a lovely nó spág, spág-bol for dinner

KateMAB · 03/12/2020 20:06

Don't know what the accents are all about!

ListeningQuietly · 03/12/2020 20:19

DD's double squash risotto was YUMMY
home grown ukichi kuri squash
used in a butternut recipe
half the squash was steamed into the risotto
the other half was baked and scattered over the top
it was just delicious
and her MFP reckons 600 calories
and all three of us were STUFFED afterwards

moonlight1705 · 03/12/2020 22:01

@ListeningQuietly that sounds amazing! I love squash recipes.

I've had the best FD in ages, came in at 528 which is frankly a miracle for me. I ended up skipping lunch as work was manic so just had tea until I got home. It would have been a tad less but my DD was having her food and a square of Cheddar accidently fell into my mouth. Blush

Just been to my taekwondo class which is back after lockdown 2 and had a fab time chatting with people and getting into the patterns again.

KateMAB · 04/12/2020 07:38

1.3kg down so the scales this morning dispite AF being here.
Im getting my 10k steps just at work so my daily average is around 15k, Ive been getting up 30mins early to do a body weight workout as well, I guess I'm just in a perfect storm for weight loss, fingers crossed it continues

moonlight1705 · 04/12/2020 08:58

Amazing loss Kate - you are certainly getting those steps in too.

I have lost the 1kg I put on last week so feeling a little better Smile

harriethoyle · 04/12/2020 09:24

@KateMAB and @moonlight1705 excellent losses both! I am finally into the next kg down... lowest weight since April 2015! Having a relaxed weekend, looking forward to a couple of glasses of wine then back on it next Monday. Happy weekend everyone!

ginsparkles · 04/12/2020 10:51

Morning all. Well done @moonlight1705 and @KateMAB on your losses! I'm back on an FD today to recoup from yesterday's birthday shenanigans!!

Just had my first cuppa of the day, and gave brought a banana for mid afternoon. Tomato and chick pea curry for tea tonight. Will be happy to see a maintain this week.

ListeningQuietly · 04/12/2020 15:31

Well done folks.

If we could just get some sunshine then the self motivation would get easier

Darker · 04/12/2020 19:20

Fasting today and it's hard - it's cold and I was at a virtual conference all day. Now I'm catching up on e-learning. I want biscuits and cake, not the healthy salad that awaits me.

ginsparkles · 04/12/2020 20:24

Kitchen closed at 543 today. It's been soooo hard, it's really really cold! Shop has the door open all day, need to find ways to keep warm in this weather !!

Bottl · 07/12/2020 08:12

Morning!
Anyone fasting today? I really need to try harder - the numbers on the scales are not going the way I'd like and I've fooled myself into thinking my methods are adequate and they're clearly not Blush

Darker · 07/12/2020 08:23

I am.

Making a bit of progress scale-wise. My jeans are no longer tight which is good enough for me - I could't get into them three months ago. I'm doing 4:3 but not being amazingly good on NFDs.

harriethoyle · 07/12/2020 09:11

Morning! I'm on a mini today, fasting tomorrow and Thurs I think.

@Bottl Sounds like you need to go back to basics and track every single thing that you eat and drink for a week. You'll quickly see where you're leading yourself astray. It might be snacking or being a bit too free on NFDs.

At the moment I'm fasting twice a week and trying for 2 mins/16:8 twice a week and it's really suiting me. Maybe think about mixing up your fasting pattern and or adding something else in like IF couple of days a week to get you over the plateau?

harriethoyle · 07/12/2020 09:11

2 minis. Not 2 minutes although that is often the limit of my enthusiasm Grin

Bottl · 07/12/2020 09:50

Thanks, @harriethoyle.

I've been trying to avoid tracking everything in the hope that eating healthily becomes more of a natural habit, rather than getting too focussed on calorie content. When I did 5:2 previously, I checked the calories in everything and have a better idea of which foods I should be choosing and which I should be avoiding on FDs. My biggest issue is over eating on NFDs and that's undoing any progress made.

I've noticed nutricheck gets lots of positive reviews so I'll download that and see how I get on.

harriethoyle · 07/12/2020 11:05

@Bottl if you want to avoid tracking, how about aiming for the healthy plate ratio on NFD? From memory it's 1/4 carbs, 1/4 lean protein and 1/2 non starchy veg. Might suit you better

Bottl · 07/12/2020 13:37

@harriethoyle - yes, good idea. And I definitely need to work on the no snacking Blush

Bottl · 07/12/2020 13:39

@ginsparkles - could you share your tomato and chickpea curry recipe please? It sounds like something that would work well on a FD (DS loves curry!). I've found a recipe on bbcfood which includes coconut milk and just wondering if yours does too.

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