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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
MazDazzle · 30/11/2020 20:13

Kitchen closed at 600. I pinched a bit of the kids’ garlic bread so that bumped me up by 100 cals.Blush Never mind, still a decent FD.

I’ve just finished decorating the tree. It’s been a good distraction technique. This is the most organised I have ever been for Christmas! Last year my tree went up mid December, I bought all my presents the weekend before Christmas and wrapped them on Christmas Eve. I was shattered come Christmas morning. I’m hoping it’ll be a lot more relaxed this year.

ListeningQuietly · 30/11/2020 20:47

Not sure what supper was calories wise :
sauerkraut, home made rosti and butchers bockwurst
during the day I had a banana and a load of tea
been cold all day though

ginsparkles · 30/11/2020 22:02

Well done to all today's fasters. I'm fasting tomorrow. Weight held steady after the last fast, but TOM now and my birthday on Thursday so not expecting great things this week, will be happy with a maintain. Let's see how the week goes!

harriethoyle · 30/11/2020 22:28

Gosh today was tough... this weather doesn't make it easy! Finished on 629 and joining @ginsparkles for day two of my b2b tomorrow Grin

ginsparkles · 30/11/2020 22:31

Oooh B2B!!! You can do this! Let's have a great Fd tomorrow @harriethoyle

MazDazzle · 30/11/2020 23:38

Oooo you’re keen beans. Good luck on your b2b gin and harriet!

Coffeeandcookies · 01/12/2020 00:09

Planning to try a b2b on Tuesday and Wednesday this week. Haven't done a b2b before, am planning Greek yoghurt with a banana for lunch tomorrow, then a vegetarian fry in the evening. I really love my porridge breakfast the day after a FD, so am considering having a late breakfast on Wed and then skipping lunch instead.

KateMAB · 01/12/2020 06:29

FD here today too

harriethoyle · 01/12/2020 08:25

We've got this Tuesday fasters! 👊

MazDazzle · 01/12/2020 10:39

I was so cold yesterday, but woke this morning full of energy and not in the slightest bit hungry, so I’m going to go for a b2b. At least then it’s out of the way.

I’m going for afternoon tea on Friday, so I want to save as much calories for that as I can.

Good luck everyone.

moonlight1705 · 01/12/2020 12:03

Hello all, sorry I have had a mad week at work and not stopped (we've just launches a fundraising appeal). Sadly I have not concentrated on any good food and I have put on 1kg Sad

So back on it today and have only had two cups of tea so far - I have got a small pot of hummus and veg for lunch with salmon fillets for tea.

Have been planning Christmas food and have not got many snacks in at all for the holidays but suspect I will be starting up again after January 4th.

MazDazzle · 01/12/2020 16:01

Good luck moonlight. A couple of fast days and you’ll shift that gain.

Not long now til dinner time, hang in their everyone!

So far I’ve just had water and black coffee. I’m buzzing. I used to feel like this on FDs, but not since I’ve got used to them. I’ve been so productive today: tidied the house and made some more wreaths from some old Christmas decorations that I was going to chuck, so I’m feeling rather pleased with myself.

Darker · 01/12/2020 18:04

NFD for me and we're having a takeaway because it feels like an eon since we've had a takeaway in this house - I'm usually fasting on a Friday. Going to enjoy every morsel.

harriethoyle · 01/12/2020 19:00

I've been busy with work today and it's made the FD so much easier! Feeling pretty good - finishing on 675 which gives me an almost perfect 1304 for the b2b days. I'm cursing those extra 4 cals ;-)

Going for a mini tomorrow and Thursday because we've an indulgent weekend of cooking planned, including roast beef and nachos (on different days obvs...!) I think I've got some soup in the freezer which will do for lunch and a chickpea curry which is currently defrosting in the fridge. so am feeling motivated for the next couple of NFDs.

KateMAB · 01/12/2020 19:12

Kitchen closed for me at 528. Was too busy to feel hungry today, and I'm now stuffed with stir fry so all in all a very good day

ListeningQuietly · 01/12/2020 19:49

NFD today
Mac n cheese with Chorizo and a BIG side salad for supper
and then back to the gym tomorrow
yippee

moonlight1705 · 01/12/2020 19:56

Kitchen closed on 638 today. Loved my sweet chilli salmon with broccoli.

ginsparkles · 01/12/2020 21:26

FD done for me too, finished on 481. Normal day tomorrow, not going to crazy as I know Thursday will be bad!!

Well done to all the Tuesday fasters and Good luck to anyone fasting tomorrow Smile

MazDazzle · 01/12/2020 22:37

What did you have for your takeaway darker? I hope you enjoyed it. FDs make us enjoy NFD treats all the better.

I think I might join you on the mini Harriet. I want to get a food deficit in for the weekend ahead.

Well done to all the fasters today!

Nailed day two of b2b. Dinner was a ready meal from Lidl. Chicken Aribiatta. I don’t usually buy ready meals, but these last few FDs they’ve been a godsend. DH is working away from home. He’s been gone over a month now and I’m starting to feel it. It’s so easy to make something quick for the kids and heat a ready meal in the microwave for me. Not as cold today, probably because I’ve had a bath. My belly is aching with hunger. Early night for me. Hopeful that the scales will see a shift in the morning.

Darker · 02/12/2020 07:44

We had chinese. I had planned an Indian from a new place - we’ve been drooling over their menu for weeks - but they were not answering the phone. I am now worried that they haven’t made it. So back to an old favourite. I ate about half what I normally would.

Darker · 02/12/2020 07:44

Fasting again today.

Bottl · 02/12/2020 08:10

Morning!
FD for me too today. I've already prepped the after-school snacks for the children in the hope I don't demolish half of it before it gets to the table.

cerealkillah · 02/12/2020 12:55

Hi everyone. FD for me here too. I had a very good NFD yesterday with no snacking. The cold weather isn't helping as I just want to eat!

KylieKoKo · 02/12/2020 13:18

I'm fasting too. So far I've had coffee, water and herbal tea and done a strength and conditioning class. I'm feeling a lot better than I did on Monday!

MazDazzle · 02/12/2020 17:12

It’s amazing how fasting can recalibrate our appetite darkness.

I’m 2lb down! My b2b paid off.

Felt cold and hungry today, so I had dinner as soon as I got in from work. Kitchen closed at 1000 cals. Pleased with that. I have a tin Coke Zero in the fridge as a treat if I feel hungry later on.

Hoping to lose another 3lb before Christmas.