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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ginsparkles · 28/11/2020 16:12

I work a lot in the run up to Christmas so I'm planning a couple of weeks of 4:3 before Christmas and then afterwards the same again. Then I will relax over Christmas a bit.

ListeningQuietly · 28/11/2020 16:19

Christmas :
No snacking - ditch the bowls of crisps etc
Plan one REALLY nice meal each day
and one smaller one
there is no need to ever go into a food coma
When you serve yourself any of the celebration meals
put the vegetables on your plate first
then the meat
then the carbs
that way you will, by default, eat a healthier meal

I LOVE Christmas
but I have learned to love eating less but better

KylieKoKo · 28/11/2020 17:29

Realistically I'm going to stuff my face from 24th - 26th December.
I'm going to fast 23rd and 27th to somewhat mitigate that. I might also try to do 4 3 the week before and after.

I figure I usually spend most of December at various events and drinks so I think I'll put on less that weight than usual over Christmas anyway.

Bottl · 28/11/2020 18:20

Christmas dinner is my absolute favourite meal of the year but mostly because of the pigs in blankets, stuffing and cranberry sauce. I do also love all the veg so will certainly aim for 50% of my plate being filled with the good stuff.

I have bought some savoury snacks but mostly the ones everyone else loves so I'm hoping to not be tempted - cashews and pistachios are my major weakness and I've purposely not bought any. I was given a box of chocolates about a month ago and hid them straightaway in the Christmas cupboard with the aim of not needing to buy any others for Christmas. There will be others because my family will bring them but I'm hoping to stay strong.

Also, I'm working until Christmas Eve and for two days inbetween Christmas and NY so will try and fit in a couple of FDs then

ListeningQuietly · 28/11/2020 18:25

Pigs in blankets are the best

TBH we get through a lot of puff pastry making sausage rolls and cheese twists and mince pies
BUT
those are instead of one of the meals
not as well as

also, keep a pint of water on the go at all times
as quenched thirst reduces snacking

Bottl · 28/11/2020 18:31

I really, really need to up my water intake! I have drunk none today so far. I seem to have developed a rather irrational fear of needing a wee when I'm out and about so don't drink water to reduce the risk.

harriethoyle · 29/11/2020 08:47

I'm going to continue with FDs until 21st Dec and no mid week boozing. Am also aiming for 16:8 via skipping breakfast every day except for 23-26th. I'm going to do a fast between 27th-31st then back to normal 5:2 week commencing 4th Jan which is when I go back to work. Have also got kettlebell and abs classes booked remotely so I'll fit as many in as I can. Hopefully that will limit the damage!

Bottl · 29/11/2020 09:40

Sounds like a well thought out plan, Harriet!!

Bottl · 29/11/2020 09:53

@Beautiful3 - just wondering how you're doing?

@harriethoyle - are you pre-Christmas plans still able to go ahead? I do hope so!!

harriethoyle · 29/11/2020 11:08

At the moment @Bottl - fingers firmly crossed! 🤞

Bottl · 29/11/2020 14:26

Oh good and I will keep my fingers firmly crossed for you

KateMAB · 29/11/2020 14:53

We don't do Christmas so not a problem for me

Petronelle · 30/11/2020 08:40

Love the Christmas tips. It can be a challenging time. So much temptation! 😋

Well I have to modify this week a bit. I have had some GI issues in the past week and have had to take some meds to help. My DH is a medic and he has advised me against 5:2 fasting this week but instead to focus on bulking up on veg, healthy proteins, small amounts of brown rice etc I am ok to do 16:8 so will be having home made veg soup, fish with veg, Greek yogurt etc and limit carbs. I aim to eat between 800-1000 every day this week. My weight is up despite the fact I ate a lot less last week but there is inflammation and to retention so I expect that to settle when I get my system working properly again. I aim to sign in here every day for the encouragement and to keep me focused. Good luck to all of today's fasters.

Bottl · 30/11/2020 10:13

Sorry to hear that, @Petronelle. Sounds like you have a good plan in place.

I'm fasting today but feel so tired and can't really be bothered - which probably means it'll be one of my more successful FDs Grin

Lunch will be leftover veg soup and I've already taken out something tomatoey from the freezer for this evening. I think it's the last of the freezer stash of randomness so might have to think about creating another batch.

Bottl · 30/11/2020 10:16

Any recipe suggestions for FD batch cooking?

KylieKoKo · 30/11/2020 10:47

I'm fasting today as well @bottl

I'm not organised enough to batch cook but I would think veggie soups and curries would be a good thing to do, or anything with mushrooms as they have barely any calories.

harriethoyle · 30/11/2020 11:23

@Bottl And @KylieKoKo I'm fasting today too.

Batch cooking - i do things like curries, pasta sauces, veg lasagne, soups. Anything easy to bulk up. Am currently on a freezer clearing mission... so I can fill it up again over Christmas!

NibbleQueen · 30/11/2020 12:28

Fasting today! I'm ending up at 650 as the stew I made in a batch for lunch every day this week was higher in cals than planned.

Can I ask what people eat on a "sod it" day? I had rather a lot of wine on Friday and on Saturday I just lay on the sofa eating for the entire day. I had 3 extremely hearty meals, including a takeaway, as well as probably about 4 portions of "treats"

cerealkillah · 30/11/2020 12:49

Fasting here today. And totally struggling. The weather is so grim I just want to eat!
If I stick to my plan I'll be about 550 calories for the day.

KylieKoKo · 30/11/2020 13:25

@cerealkillah

Me too. It's so miserable and I just want to eat comfort food like pie and mash.

KylieKoKo · 30/11/2020 13:27

@NibbleQueen

Yesterday I had a cheese toastie for lunch, some crisps as a snack and pepperoni pizza for tea, along with half a bottle of red wine.

I did go for a long walk and got about 28,000 steps in though so I feel I earned it!

NibbleQueen · 30/11/2020 13:43

@KylieKoKo that doesn't even seem that bad... I won't do the full list for the benefit of everybody fasting today but it was definitely too much!

MazDazzle · 30/11/2020 14:13

After a weekend of indulgence I’m checking in for a FD. Just coffee and water so far. I’m freezing!

Bottl · 30/11/2020 14:44

@harriethoyle - thanks for those suggestions. I'm also trying to run down my freezer but thought I'd get one more batch cook in there and consumed before Christmas Grin

@NibbleQueen - I will eat anything and everything on a 'sod it' day. Like a woman possessed Blush. I have been better lately and even turned down a takeaway bacon bap yesterday - mostly because I'm a bit meh about this particular food item from this establishment...had it have been a pasty on offer, I'd have found it harder to say no Grin

I've just made soup - mostly carrot and coriander but I chucked in some leftover air crisped veg which turned it the most disgusting colour but it was edible - I'm such a rubbish cook Blush

Good luck Monday fasters

KylieKoKo · 30/11/2020 19:03

I just finished my evening meal, which was delicious. I have room for a boiled egg later and should finish today on 510 as long as I don't succumb to temptation.