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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
KylieKoKo · 22/11/2020 21:34

FD for me tomorrow too. I've eaten a lot this weekend so I'm actually looking forward to having a day of light eating tomorrow! I might feel differently when I'm hungry though.

I have seafood and veg stir fry for my main meal with the usual miso soup, salad and boiled egg.

Darker · 23/11/2020 06:55

Good luck, fellow fasters. I’ve woken up thinking about breakfast already. 😱

NibbleQueen · 23/11/2020 07:19

Hello all. I'd like to join as I've been failing to lose weight doing just regular calorie counting. I think the issue is going over calories once or twice a week. Two weeks now and haven't lost even a little weight.

Have fasted before in the past. I'd like to try 4:3 this time.

Today I'll be having a bowl of greek yoghurt, seeds and berries about 1pm, then dinner will be salmon, veg and a clementine. I do either HIIT or weights for 20 mins each morning and will go for a walk/bike ride after the 1pm meal. Miso soup and lettuce dressed with salt and vinegar if I get desperate.

Wish me luck!

Bottl · 23/11/2020 10:10

Welcome @NibbleQueen. And good luck for your fast.
There's loads of useful info in this group and always someone to offer a bit of support when necessary Smile

NibbleQueen · 23/11/2020 11:29

Thanks for the welcome. The thing I struggle with most is my husband! He is a snacker with a sweet tooth, which means there's often lots of processed stuff in the house and he's often trying to feed it to me!

Bottl · 23/11/2020 13:25

That is difficult, Nibble!
My weakness is having to feed other people. I'm a childminder so there's always someone who needs food.
I have managed to resist having anything so far today apart from a coffee this morning.

Petronelle · 23/11/2020 15:10

Signing in a little late but glad to be here for today's FD.ni am just sitting with s cup of miso s no DBA slice of chicken. I have a prawn stir fry planned for this evening. Hope everyone is having a good day.

NibbleQueen · 23/11/2020 15:11

True to form husband came home with confit duck, mince pies and a new flavour of the chocolate we like 😂

I have said no to a mince pie 3 times in the last hour and had a slice of chicken instead 😇

Bottl · 23/11/2020 15:33

@Petronelle - enjoy your soup! What do you out in your stir fry? I see lots of posters choose it on a FD and whilst I do love it, I find it a bit of a faff to prepare

Nibble - excellent restraint!!! Mince pies would possibly have made me cave!!

Darker · 23/11/2020 16:02

I need to start working on my Christmas survival plan. I don't want to slide back to the loungewear-only zone.

Bottl · 23/11/2020 16:38

I was thinking ahead to Christmas too (as I was stashing another 3 packs of crisps in the Christmas cupboard Blush).

Without checking, I think Christmas day is a Friday so I can still fast Monday and Wednesday that week and the same the following week. This will hopefully keep me on track and not fall out of routine

Bottl · 23/11/2020 16:39

Or do you mean generally surviving Christmas? In which case, I offer no useful advice as I tend to just eat my way through it

KateMAB · 23/11/2020 16:40

Hi everyone, hope your FD are going well.
FD for me tomorrow, Greek yoghurtand berries for breakfast and a 3 bean chili for lunch with cauliflower rice. No dinner as I'm on a socially distanced first aid course, it will finish at 9.30 then straight home to bed. (that's the plan anyways)

Bottl · 23/11/2020 16:42

Good plan, @KateMAB

I sometimes miss my evening meal. I find it easier to resist dinner than I do breakfast.

Coffeeandcookies · 23/11/2020 17:35

Welcome NibbleQueen, good to have you join with us! I have a snacking DH well and what I find helps is I buy him snacks that he likes and I don't. Then I'm not tempted and he thinks I'm being really kind by getting him his 'special' treats! Grin

Bottl · 23/11/2020 17:43

Good tactic, @Coffeeandcookies

Ds tortured me earlier by cooking toast. And when I got home after the school run, it was the first thing I could smell when I opened the front door.

I've managed to last the day on only coffee and water so am going to have some pasta with my bolognese now instead of faffing with a jacket potato. I just need to move myself to cook the pasta

Coffeeandcookies · 23/11/2020 18:26

Dinner finished, calorie count for today is 610. Kitchen is closed, but if anyone can deploy a barricade on my kitchen door I'd appreciate it.

cerealkillah · 23/11/2020 19:46

Not such a good Fd for me. No breakfast, soup and think bagel for lunch, tea was a ready meal. BUT I had some French bread and butter. I think that takes me to about 800 calories, so not too bad. And I stopped myself eating more.

ListeningQuietly · 23/11/2020 19:48

I fasted all day (just mugs of tea)
and then had a mushroom and cheese omelette for supper
that will do

Nibble
Get your DH to focus his gastronomic tendencies into meal theatre
rather than snacking Wink

MazDazzle · 23/11/2020 21:59

Oh Nibble, I can’t stop thinking about warm mince pies especially the buttery, crumbly pastry. Blush

FD for me today. Usually I can only manage a mini on the days I’m working as I get so hungry. I leave the house at 7:30am, I’m on my feet all day and I don’t get home until 6pm. Today was a success though! Black coffee and water through the day then chicken breast, veg and a couple of tangerines for dinner.

I swear my face is looking slimmer already! Grin

Beautiful3 · 23/11/2020 22:06

I'm back to it! Will be fasting tomorrow!

NibbleQueen · 23/11/2020 22:15

Sorry, it seems my post was triggering for all the fasters today! I did have one square of chocolate to try it but otherwise stuck the plan for the day and finished up around 550cals. I didn't find I was especially hungry today but I was on the sofa practically all day, so calorie needs were low...
Well done everyone on their fasts and victories for today!

KylieKoKo · 23/11/2020 23:30

I think I'm the only person in the world that doesn't really like mince pies that much!

I'm in bed now, very much looking forward to my breakfast tomorrow!

I'll be fasting again on Thursday this week.

Petronelle · 24/11/2020 07:03

Oh my goodness - the typos on my last post 😳

Botl I am sorry for the late reply. I usually use a bag of frozen or fresh stir fry mix, fried with a few sprays of oil. When it has softened a bit I add tamari sauce, lime juice and some spicy peppers in vinegar and then add either prawns or squid. This also works with noodles. I sometimes use orange juice instead of lime and leave out the chilli if I am doing it with beef or pork. The kids love that one with noodles. I use tamari because I am coeliac and it is gluten free but you can also use regular soya sauce.

Bottl · 24/11/2020 07:18

Ooh, sounds tasty! I'll try and order some frozen once I've emptied and defrosted my freezer