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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Darker · 18/11/2020 22:37

Did ok today. Porridge, and apple and big salad. This despite son cooking something extremely delicious and alluring which I had to pretend wasn’t happening.

KylieKoKo · 18/11/2020 22:40

I've had an ok day and eaten 511 calories but I'm finding myself browsing recipes which probably isn't helping me.

I've had a night time herbal tea and will be heading to bed shortly.

Bottl · 18/11/2020 23:41

@cerealkillah - it was quite a revelation when I discovered I wouldn't keel over from missing breakfast Grin. I'm trying now to keep going until tea time without having anything but rarely manage it because food gets the better of me when I'm serving up the toddlers' lunches Blush

@Darker - well done for resisting! What had your ds made? All mine ever makes is a bloody mess AngryHmmGrin

@KylieKoKo - any inspiration from the recipes?

Darker · 19/11/2020 07:39

Bottl I didn’t look or ask. It just smelled glorious.

moonlight1705 · 19/11/2020 08:42

Well done on your FDs everyone, although I don't know how you resisted cooking temptation darker

I've planned my meals and assuming nothing goes awry then it should be 703 today.

ListeningQuietly · 19/11/2020 09:20

Morning all,
Its sunny but the wind is COLD so I'm at my desk all day.

Recipe browsing : only a good idea if you are actively planning your menu for the week
otherwise it leads to snacking

on the other hand, falling down a hole of interesting vegetarian and vegetable based recipes can make suppers more fun.

LOTS of tea today.
Do well Thursday fasters.

KylieKoKo · 19/11/2020 10:32

@bottl

I was mainly looking at chorizo and tomato dishes so not fast day friendly! I think I might try this at the weekend www.kitchensanctuary.com/one-pot-creamy-tomato-chorizo-rigatoni/

KylieKoKo · 19/11/2020 12:58

@ListeningQuietly

Recipe browsing : only a good idea if you are actively planning your menu for the week otherwise it leads to snacking

I agree, but I stayed strong, no snacking and consumed only 511 calories yesterday. It was a weird compulsion to look, maybe my brain and body trying to hold on to my fat!

ListeningQuietly · 19/11/2020 15:56

Without the cream, those sort of recipes are pretty good
make the Chorizo be a really spicy one and ramp up the veg
and its easy to bring a portion in as part of TDEE less 10%

says she who is having this for supper
www.750g.com/feuillete-au-camembert-lardons-et-pommes-de-terre-r201117.htm

harriethoyle · 19/11/2020 17:14

@KylieKoKo I am.the WORST for falling into an instagram food hole on fast evenings. It's like delicious torture!

harriethoyle · 19/11/2020 17:18

www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/best-ever-winter-one-pot-meals?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=&utm_campaign=GF_NLT_111120_520560_BBC%20Good%20Food_Newsletters_13927111

This is my current go to... the sausage gnocchi was FANTASTIC. trying the pork hot pot next I think

KateMAB · 19/11/2020 22:13

FD done kitchen closed at 523.
Didn't mean to do a proper one today but DS1 missed his school bus so I had to leave earlier than usual to get him from the bus stop and take him in to school, in the resulting panic I forgot to take my lunch.

KateMAB · 20/11/2020 07:41

I've lost 1kg, happy round the bedroom

moonlight1705 · 20/11/2020 07:47

Morning, had a large FD at 720 yesterday however this morning I've lost 0.4kg which is still 0.8lb so not too bad considering I've effectively had two minis.

Well done @KateMAB that's really good.

Bottl · 20/11/2020 08:30

All the recipes sound delish!

Fantastic SVs @KateMAB and @moonlight1705

FD for me today but I'm already trying to talk myself out of it Blush

Darker · 20/11/2020 09:39

Weighed in at blankety-stone-Ten this morning after a non fast day, which I’m very happy with. Feels like good progress.

FD today.

Bottl · 20/11/2020 10:51

Great news, @Darker!

ListeningQuietly · 20/11/2020 13:10

Well done Kate and Darker

One of the lovely things about 5:2 is that because the restrictions on food are focussed into a couple of days a week
it allows a real enjoyment of good meals on at least one other day a week.

One of the important NSVs to have ready for happy weight is to be able to produce gorgeous delicious food
that will be in the right portions and nutrient mix
to keep you at a healthy weight Smile

MazDazzle · 20/11/2020 15:02

FD for me today after being off track for a while.

I can’t believe I missed BC’s departure! Shock I’ve been on this board for 7-8 years, I think. 2020 has certainly been a curve ball of a year.

ListeningQuietly · 20/11/2020 15:14

Hi Maz,
Welcome back.
BichChocFrenzy is indeed gone. I'm still in touch with her by email
and she asked me to come and carry on her valuable work
and I suspect she wanted me to get my own fasting backside in gear Grin

MazDazzle · 21/11/2020 16:25

Thank you @ListeningQuietly! I’m sure you’ll do a grand job.

Weighed in today after yesterday’s FD and I’m only up 4lb after skiving for months. I feel so fat though. I think 3lb has gone straight to my tum and the other pound to my chin!

ListeningQuietly · 21/11/2020 17:11

Maz
Its funny how bloated one can feel after a while not fasting
and how good it feels to give your digestion a break on a fast day.
hoover into the corners was the phrase used by a poster on the early threads.

Coffeeandcookies · 22/11/2020 20:36

Evening all, just popping in to keep myself accountable! FD for me tomorrow, planning Greek yoghurt with berries and a banana for lunch and then it's slow-cooker beef stew in the evening. Will serve everyone else potatoes with that, but I'm having it with roasted cauliflower.

Any other Monday fasters planning their menu yet?

Bottl · 22/11/2020 21:28

Hi @Coffeeandcookies. FD for me tomorrow too. Minestrone soups for lunch and something no tomato-based that I've just pulled out of the freezer. Ds will probably have his with pasta or rice and I might have a small jacket potato with mine.

Welcome back, @MazDazzle

Bottl · 22/11/2020 21:29

Not sure where the random 'no' came from - dinner will be tomato-based Grin

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