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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
KylieKoKo · 16/11/2020 19:30

Well done @harriethoyle

I'm yet to try a btb fast. The only thing that gets me through the day is the promise of more food tomorrow.

I'm now cooking up my main meal of been and mushroom chilli.

harriethoyle · 16/11/2020 19:38

@KylieKoKo I find it easier if I back load it so I have more cals on day 2! So tomorrow, with c.700 cals I could have two fishcakes and baked beans which would be a totally normal tea on a non FD (and in fact probably a bit more cos I'd usually only have one fishcake)... it's just the pushing through to tea time that gets tough on day 2!

Darker · 16/11/2020 22:54

Well done Monday fasters.

I’ve managed to get through with porridge, a few cups of tea with milk, a mug of miso soup and two Granny Smith apples. Just back from a long walk with my friend - we pushed on and did 20000 steps. Hoping that will get me off to sleep and that I haven’t put her off walking with me ever again.

I haven’t tried a b2b yet. Hardcore!

KateMAB · 17/11/2020 07:19

Morning all. Today is my first FD, I sat down last night to work out all my food for today and decided to go for 800 to ease myself into the system. I need to eat a good breakfast to take my medication so will see how it goes.

cerealkillah · 17/11/2020 07:59

Welcome @KateMAB and good luck for your first fast day. This is a really friendly and helpful place.

Kitchen closed on 595 yesterday. I really struggled towards the end and felt very hungry, despite drinking plenty of water.

My main aim for this week is to have really good NFD. I've been drinking alcohol over the weekends which leads to snacking. I'm going to try not to drink this week and see what happens.

cerealkillah · 17/11/2020 08:00

Good luck @harriethoyle on your B2B. I don't know if I could do that.

moonlight1705 · 17/11/2020 08:02

Morning all, am doing my first FD of the week. Got a nice soup but then I have salmon for dinner but do not know what to do with it.

Anyone got any good FD salmon fillet recipes? I'm normally more prepared than this Grin

harriethoyle · 17/11/2020 08:16

@moonlight1705 I paint it with teriyaki sauce then bake in a foil parcel. Lovely with pak choi or stir fry veg

MadauntofA · 17/11/2020 09:04

Welcome Kate! Morning all. B2b today and tomorrow for me. Chicken soup for lunch then veggie sausages and roasted veggies for dinner.

Petronelle · 17/11/2020 10:17

Hi all, I meant to post yesterday but just couldn't get around to it. It was my first FD of the week and it went really well until I made mash for the kids, lost the run of myself and had a few nibbles which put me over the 500 but should be less than 700. I am aiming to join Harriet for a B2B and struggling already so have just made an herbal tea and then I will take the beast out furba long walk before I tackle the airing cupboard. I will have miso at lunch or later and then I am going to prepare Listening's spinach egg cheesey dish of delight. 😋

ListeningQuietly · 17/11/2020 12:15

Afternoon all,
Kate starting on an 800 is a good idea as then you'll feel in control of your food from the outset

Petronelle the cool thing though is that you did not go sod it and scoff everything
maintaining an awareness of what you eat over a whole week really helps.

I'm about to have a small lunch and then its takeaway for supper
but as always I'll make sure that its mostly vegetables / pulses and no creamy sauces to keep the calories under control
still have to finish going through the deliveroo list to decide what to get !!

harriethoyle · 17/11/2020 18:18

I think the kitchen is closing on 563... I've theoretically got 170 cals to "spend" because I'm on a b2b but I don't feel super hungry so will see if I can push through Grin

MadauntofA · 17/11/2020 18:53

Well done Harriet, I'm done her too at 620.

moonlight1705 · 17/11/2020 21:12

Rubbish FD and had to make it a mini at 1021 calories. I just lost it around breakfast and had to have something.

I did however make a nice salmon stirfry so thanks for the idea harriet

KateMAB · 17/11/2020 21:28

Kitchen closed at 783. Very pleased with how it went, didn't feel particularly hungry at any point.
I'll aim for 800 again on Thursday then try for 500 next week

ListeningQuietly · 17/11/2020 21:47

moonlight
THere is no such thing as a failed fast day
just a deferred fast day Smile

Kate
Well done. 800 is a really good controlled day
and next week it will all slot in neatly

Harriet
you have just hit one of the MEGA NSVs - I could eat but I'm not fussed
well done

harriethoyle · 17/11/2020 22:43

Well done fellow fasters!

@moonlight1705 1021 is an excellent mini and probably a lot less than you would have had on a normal NFD

@ListeningQuietly I have never reached this heady pinnacle before 😂

Petronelle · 18/11/2020 06:37

Morning everyone. I fell asleep last night before I could post. I really struggled with my B2B yesterday but got my period last night which probably helps explain the hunger that ravaged me yesteday! Still did ok and I came in at 625 which included a cup of tea and two little cinnamon biscuits which I enjoyed enormously and do not regret a single calorie. My weight is down again this morning so am now only 300g away from my first target which will move me from obese to overweight. I can almost smell the success 😄.

Today I plan on TDEE minus 10% and am looking forward to some baked porridge later. Good luck to all of today's fasters.

cerealkillah · 18/11/2020 08:20

Morning all. FD for me today. I'm going to try and go without breakfast for the first time. I'm on my 5th week of this so it should be achievable.
Good luck to everyone fasting today.

harriethoyle · 18/11/2020 08:48

Morning all, had delicious toast and bovril for breakfast and was ravenous for it! Aiming for c.1000 cals today because we have our bubble buddy's birthday tomorrow and she's requested pizza.

Good luck any Wednesday tasters!

Bottl · 18/11/2020 09:30

Just checking in quickly - FD today! Going to take the baby for a quick walk to get him off to sleep and then I'll be back - as long as I don't get washed away I'm all this rain

KylieKoKo · 18/11/2020 13:47

I am fasting today too.

I have just had coffee, water and herbal tea so far.
I have miso soup and salad for when I get hungry then my main meal is garlic sea bass and roast veggies (cooked in olive oil spray) with a boiled egg for later on in the evening.

Good luck Wednesday fasters.

ListeningQuietly · 18/11/2020 14:38

Petronelle
Fingers and toes crossed for you hitting that weight goal soon
and yes, biscuits are fine - so long as you have one or two and savour them.

A very dear friend who is morbidly, morbidly obese opens the packet sideways and eats things like digestives three at a time.
He gets through about ten packs of biscuits a weekend.
Its scary how easy those destructive food habits are to create.

Miserable weather days like these are tough
but even if you only manage mini fasts
so 16:8 and sort of TDEE - 25%
you are heading in the right direction

Bottl · 18/11/2020 20:35

Oh my goodness, it's been the longest day! I got utterly drenched on the school run this morning. Had an assessment for the course I'm doing at lunchtime so that was a good distraction from food/eating. I'd hoped to have half an hour afterwards to pop home for a quick cup of coffee and a wee before the school run but for one reason or another I had to go straight to school so by the time I did eventually get home I was cold, tired and accompanied by 5 very excitable small people.
I'm now having my first hot drink of the day and just about ready for bed.
How's everyone got on today?

cerealkillah · 18/11/2020 21:12

I've had a good day. For the first I avoided breakfast and had nothing except tea and coffee and water till 12.30. Kitchen closed on 560 calories, so I'm happy with that.

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