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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Orangeblossom7777 · 15/11/2020 16:46

What is IN the protein shake?
how does it compare for nutrients with a big pile of stir fried veg or a dhal or an omelette ?

Some info here www.diabetes.co.uk/downloads/external/Almased_Science%20Brochure_UK_01.pdf

ListeningQuietly · 15/11/2020 16:50

Orange
Those sort of shakes are fine as a rapid weight loss meal replacement
BUT
they do not teach your body to get used to healthy long term eating habits
and 5:2 is very much for the long term

Orangeblossom7777 · 15/11/2020 16:54

I see...it recommends using them as a supplement in the longer term (well it would I suppose they are not cheap) you an blend it with berries etc...I saw this and thought about using them for fasting. I might just mix it up and try different things to see how it goes. Thanks

www.almased.com/blog/all-blogs/almased-101/fasting-is-great,-fasting-with-almased-is-better

ListeningQuietly · 15/11/2020 17:01

Orange
Lots of companies have jumped onto the 5:2 bandwagon
but in reality its as simple as missing out a few meals and eating healthily.
Its very hard to fight against the might of the weight loss industry
but deeply satisfying when it clicks
that
eating in an 8 hour window (so basically skipping breakfast)
having black coffee or tea or herbal tea on fast days
and loading up with veg
is
cheap
sustainable
fun to plan
works for years and years
and helps you stay at happy weight when you get there Smile

Have a look at some of the links in the Opening post ( BigChoc is not here any more so I'm being Mum now) and feel free to ask questions
as you start your 5:2 journey Smile

KateMAB · 15/11/2020 17:45

Hi can I join too, due to ill health and drug side effects I have pilled on 20kg in the last 3 years, after a change in medication Im finally pain free and have enough energy to start getting back to normal.
I had managed to lose 7kg when lock down hit and I had to shield, so of course it all went back on.
Ive lost 5kg just by going back to work! But have hit a plateau.
Planning on fasting on Tuesdays and Thursdays

ListeningQuietly · 15/11/2020 18:59

Hi Kate Welcome to the gang.
Take it VERY easy on yourself to start.
Use MFP to work out exactly what you are eating
a bit of 16:8
and build from there
but slow and steady will win the race

Bottl · 15/11/2020 19:10

Welcome @Orangeblossom7777 and @KateMAB.
There's loads of great advice on this thread and even more great support from fellow 5:2ers

Bottl · 15/11/2020 19:12

@harriethoyle - remind me when your big day is? For some reason I have in my head that it's December but something in my tiny little brain is telling me that's not right.

harriethoyle · 15/11/2020 19:36

Yes @Bottl that's right - covid permitting aiming to elope with kids and witnesses just before Christmas. I'll post a dress pic!

Who else is fasting with me and @ListeningQuietly tomorrow? I'm doing back to back this week so have pre-made spag bol for my FDs to have with loads of broc and, if I can push through to dinner, a little bit of pasta. Also got packed lunch stuff for Weds-Fri.

I'll tell you another side benefit of drinking less booze... my supermarket bills are so much lower! Got everything I'll need for this week this morning for £21. Bargain!

Bottl · 15/11/2020 20:05

Oh, Harriet, that's so exciting (and I'm more than a little surprised I retained that information!)...I will keep everything crossed that COVID allows your plans to go ahead. And yes, we'll need pics Grin

I'm fasting tomorrow, too. Ds is going to be out in the evening so I don't have to think about cooking anything for him which always makes a FD easier for me.

Planning to fast Wednesday and Friday too.

harriethoyle · 15/11/2020 20:35

I'm not wearing white. I think I'd get hit by a thunderbolt Grin

Bottl · 15/11/2020 20:39
Grin
KylieKoKo · 15/11/2020 20:44

I'm planning a fast tomorrow.

A main meal of bean and mushroom chilli with a boiled egg, miso soup and salad as needed.

Coffeeandcookies · 15/11/2020 21:04

I'm going to do a mini-FD tomorrow, planning Greek yoghurt and berries for lunch and vegetarian chilli for dinner.

Welcome orange and Kate!

Darker · 15/11/2020 21:29

Mentally bracing myself for mon/wed/fri fasting. Have salad and miso lined up. Good luck everyone fasting this week.

MadauntofA · 15/11/2020 21:32

That's really exciting Harriet! What colour are you wearing? Are you all organised COVID restrictions permitting. I'll be B2B on Tuesday and Wednesday this week.

harriethoyle · 15/11/2020 22:16

Midnight blue @MadauntofA. It's all very relaxed in terms of planning - just a ceremony at the venue then a lovely lunch afterwards. Am just hoping no one gets struck down the day before 😭🤞🤞🤞🤞

ListeningQuietly · 15/11/2020 22:19

harriet
you know we WILL need photo evidence WinkGrin

harriethoyle · 15/11/2020 22:20

I'll be spamming you all for WEEKS never fear!

MadauntofA · 16/11/2020 06:23

Midnight blue sounds fabulous! I look forward to the photos!!

cerealkillah · 16/11/2020 10:36

What exciting news @harriethoyle .

I'm also on a FD today. This is my 4th week of 5:2. I'm still struggling to go without breakfast.
Full fat Greek yogurt and berries
Miso soup and some roasted veg
Chili and roasted veg

KylieKoKo · 16/11/2020 11:27

How are the Monday fasters doing? So far I have had coffee and water and am about to make a herbal tea.

I am not hungry but I feel like eating!

Darker · 16/11/2020 12:15

I've had porridge made with water and tea.

ListeningQuietly · 16/11/2020 12:27

Third mug of tea for me and a gym class earlier.

If you feel hungry, have a drink of water in case its thirst.

harriethoyle · 16/11/2020 19:08

Today was tough but busy so managed to push through to tea. Kitchen closed on 573 which gives me 725 tomorrow on a b2b...