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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ListeningQuietly · 12/11/2020 21:20

Supper tonight was jacket potato with STRONG cheddar and a bit of butter
warm and filling and yummy

MadauntofA · 13/11/2020 07:37

Cheese used to be my thing too, but I can't eat too much of it now - still love a small piece of Brie though!
FD here. I don't usually fast on a Friday, but my week has been wonky. I have bought a nice ready meal of 480cals though, so along with my miso soup for lunch, that'll be be fine for the day.

moonlight1705 · 13/11/2020 07:50

Salty things of any type are my thing, crisps, chips, cheese (and cherries although obviously not salty Smile)

I am pleased because after a really good week, I have lost 1.5kg. OK, it was mostly the weight I had put on last week but still gotta be a good thing. There are only 7 weeks until the big C so I am going to not have any alcohol to see if that will help get me going before the holiday.

Bottl · 13/11/2020 07:57

@moonlight1705 - how was your class? And congratulations on your sv!!

@ListeningQuietly - mmmm, your JP sounds delish!

@MadauntofA - good luck with your FD

Friday is usually my FD but I'm going out tonight - woohoo - so going to skip breakfast and plan to have poached eggs for lunch and then not worry about this evening's indulgence. Even before lockdown, going out was always a bit of an effort so my feelings of excitement at going out tonight are a bit of a surprise Grin

Also, I've finally broken through to the next stone zone down!

KylieKoKo · 13/11/2020 10:20

@ListeningQuietly the other day I had a slice of granary toast, lightly buttered topped with spinach, then sliced reblochon and then cherry tomatoes. I would highly recommend it.

This week I lost two pounds so I am now 164.6 with a svelte BMI of 28! I am very pleased. 9.8 pounds down in two months!

Bottl · 13/11/2020 10:24

@KylieKoKo - congratulations on your sv! I have no idea what my bmi is...too scared to look until I've lost a bit more weight

Darker · 13/11/2020 10:25

Well done on the SVs!

I'm fasting again today. Had some lovely food yesterday but not too much. I think I was tired - the day before I skipped my 10,000 steps and felt guilty but actually I felt better for a day off.

ListeningQuietly · 13/11/2020 10:47

Kylie
WEll done on averaging a pound a week, that is a very stable way to go.

I just did an online yoga class with my normal teacher and my friends. My legs are dying
and then my evil daughter toasted bunloaf half way through Grin

bottl Its nice when the first number drops
darker enjoy a break day. You have to let your body learn about what the new normal will be

Enjoy the sunshine today folks.

Bottl · 13/11/2020 11:05

Darker - good luck for your fast day. Sounds like a break from your step goal helped. I'm now aiming for a weekly average because some weekdays I can get upwards of 15,000 but weekends I struggle to get above 2,000 sometimes Blush

Darker · 14/11/2020 11:41

A weekly average is fine. I was horrified how much mine dropped after I started working from home - just getting to the office was a good 7k steps a day that I hadn't really noticed.

Coffeeandcookies · 14/11/2020 13:44

Afternoon everyone, I haven't posted in a while but have been reading the thread, well done for all the SVs and NSVs, some great progress being made!!

I have hit the weight I set as my target weight (total weight loss of 3 stone 4lb) and am now trying to work out the best way for me to maintain. I know from past experience this is the hardest bit for me!!

At the minute I'm weighing myself every morning to keep close tabs on my weight and have set a limit of 4lbs above my target weight. If I go over that I'll start back into 5:2 again. Otherwise I'm trying to stick to my TDEE each day, but gradually reduce the amount of weighing and measuring I'm doing and figure out portion size by eye. I know there is the risk of underestimating how much I'm eating, but I need to get to a point where I can maintain my weight without having to count every single calorie as I don't find that sustainable in the long term. Will see how I get on!!

ListeningQuietly · 14/11/2020 13:48

Well done Coffee
I can heartily suggest 6:1 - as a single fast day per week is good for your body, regardless of weight loss
and it means you'll remember what hungry feels like
but in a controlled way.

Weighing every day is good, but I'd also say that 2lb / 1kg is a better trigger than double that
just because you need to make sure your appetite matches your new size

MadauntofA · 14/11/2020 15:12

That's a great achievement Coffee, well done!

Coffeeandcookies · 14/11/2020 15:32

Thanks Listening, I do quite like the idea of 6:1 and think that is probably better as a long-term plan, especially if I want to reduce how much calorie counting I want to have to do.

Thanks Madaunt, am so delighted to have reached this point and am determined to make this my new normal!

Bottl · 14/11/2020 18:37

@Coffeeandcookies - congratulations on reaching goal!! What a great feeling that must be. 6:1 sounds like a good maintenance plan.

KylieKoKo · 14/11/2020 19:54

Excellent news @Coffeeandcookies

Well done

Petronelle · 15/11/2020 08:00

That is a fantastic result *Coffee" . Congratulations.

harriethoyle · 15/11/2020 09:28

Fabulous @Coffeeandcookies well done!

I've got an unexpected day without my DF today because the only flight I could get home was a morning one because of lockdown. Was tempted to get a really decent bottle of red and feel miserable on the sofa with the dogs but instead am going to make today my first dry day of the week, do a kettlebell class online and then get ahead with this week's admin so I hit the ground running!

Orangeblossom7777 · 15/11/2020 12:43

Following for ideas.

ListeningQuietly · 15/11/2020 14:59

Hi Orangeblossom You have come to the right place

Good call Harriet - I'm a firm believer in never drinking alone
and getting ahead on admin is cool
a couple of dry days each week is important for long term health

I had breakfast in the garden in my summerhouse and a blustery walk on a hillfort today and am now back indoors watching the rain
10000 steps on a Sunday is always good
online gym class and fasting tomorrow

Hope everybody else is staying warm and dry

Orangeblossom7777 · 15/11/2020 15:05

Has anyone tried protein shakes on fast days please?

ListeningQuietly · 15/11/2020 15:30

Orangeblossom
Processed fake food like protein shakes are not a good idea.
Remember that 5:2 is a way of eating not just a weight loss plan
You need to make your fast day food something nutritious and delicious that you will look forward to, year in year out.

What is IN the protein shake?
how does it compare for nutrients with a big pile of stir fried veg or a dhal or an omelette ?

MadauntofA · 15/11/2020 15:54

Healthy ready meals/ soups etc are an alternative if you don't want to count calories on a FD Orange

ListeningQuietly · 15/11/2020 16:14

A whole pot of this one
www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/fresh-soup/sainsburys-lentil-dahl-soup-600g
is just over 400 calories
and you'll struggle to walk after eating the whole thing Smile

Orangeblossom7777 · 15/11/2020 16:43

I was looking at the Almased shakes which I sometimes use instead of breakfast. They are made of soya, yoghurt and honey...I find they help me feel less hungry 33g protein I thunk they have - you mix them with a small amount of oil I tend to use walnut oil. Thanks for the advice. Flowers