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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ListeningQuietly · 06/11/2020 18:33

Darker
Persimmons are the classic starter at a Thanksgiving Dinner
I do not especially like them
but they produce such happy memories
that they taste delicious !

DD cooked an AMAZING tofu, veg and coconut Thai curry last night.

I can heartily recommend Tofu (the plain tofoo is under £2 a box)
cubed and fried or steamed or baked or even raw
its just yummy and VVV low calorie and filling

a box feeds two people really well for dinner in a stir fry or similar

MadauntofA · 07/11/2020 08:22

I like persimmons, not too sweet. I'm going to make moussaka with some lamb mince, but haven't got very much. Maybe silly question, but does anyone know if you can pad out lamb in a similar way to beef mince by using lentils? Never tried doing that, but I use lentils in my beef all the time.

MadauntofA · 07/11/2020 08:25

I like the cauldron marinated tofu Listening, but haven't tried the plan Tofu make. Do you have to add loads of seasoning?
Are you still in the USA?

ListeningQuietly · 07/11/2020 11:14

Madaunt
I live on the south coast. I have LOTS of family in the US.

Bulking lamb with lentils - should be fine.
In the 80's we used to bulk mince with aduki beans - I remember it being very good.

The plain Tofoo is a base onto which you put whatever you fancy.
DD regularly has Tofu and broccoli pesto pasta
I like it cubed and fried and then stirred into a pad thai
but basically any recipe that calls for chicken or prawns, tofu will do.
and as Tofoo is made in Yorkshire its better for the planet than meat
and being 7% fat and 13% protein is a good food for weight management.

MadauntofA · 07/11/2020 11:24

I have adzuki beans - will get them out to soak. Great idea, thanks.
I'll have to try some Tofoo when I next do the shopping.

cerealkillah · 08/11/2020 12:56

@Beautiful3 I'm so very sorry to hear of your loss. Sending your an un-Mumsnetty hug Thanks

cerealkillah · 08/11/2020 12:59

I'm planning my two FD this week - it'll be Monday and Wednesday. I am roasting some veg so I have that to hand to either add to miso for soup or to some tomatoes to make ratatouille.
I'm going to look into Tofoo. Thanks for the recommendation @ListeningQuietly.
I've also decided to cut all alcohol until lockdown ends, excerpt Thursday because it's my birthday. I'll have a glass of wine. But alcohol leads to unhealthy snacking, so cutting it out will be good for me.
It's been two weeks now and I do feel a lot less hungry these days.

Bottl · 08/11/2020 14:50

I'm planning to fast Monday and Wednesday too.

Darker · 08/11/2020 16:12

I've picked up some low calorie salads to have for lunches on my Mon and Wed fast days. It feels easier when the meals are all lined up and ready to go.

ListeningQuietly · 08/11/2020 16:20

Low alcohol fasting for me too over the coming weeks
the weekend was a bit of a wipeout watching the news too much !

Beautiful3 · 08/11/2020 16:28

Hi, thanks everyone for your thoughts. I will return when my appetite grows. Well done guys for sticking to your fasts, I'm proud of you all x

cerealkillah · 08/11/2020 17:25

@Darker

I've picked up some low calorie salads to have for lunches on my Mon and Wed fast days. It feels easier when the meals are all lined up and ready to go.
Yes, same for me. I find it so much easier with something ready made.
Bottl · 08/11/2020 17:30

Take care of yourself, @Beautiful3 xx

ListeningQuietly · 08/11/2020 17:39

Beautiful
As has always been the case, these threads are about much more than what people are eating day to day.

FFS I can go months without doing a week of 5:2
BUT
I know that the way of life and support is key
and if you need to rant about the world in general
this is a very safe, supportive corner of MN to do it
and chances are there will be somebody awake 24/7 to chat to.

It really does not matter if fasting is going a bit sideways with lockdowns and elections and goodness knows what else

what matters is to eat mindfully and have 5:2 in the back of your mind
ready to help you make healthy choices long term

Flowers for everybody, especially the lurkers Wink

Bottl · 08/11/2020 18:07

Well said, @ListeningQuietly

cerealkillah · 08/11/2020 20:46

@ListeningQuietly that's so lovely to read that this is a safe and supportive corner.

MadauntofA · 08/11/2020 20:50

Yes, very well put Listening, thank you.

Petronelle · 09/11/2020 06:45

I have not been on for a few days so have just read about the passing of your mum Beautiful I am so sorry for your loss.

Thank you Listening. I have always found this place on MN to be very supportive and safe.

I weighed in this morning to find that my weight has gone back up again despite two good FDs and a couple of eating well under my TDEE. I am not too disheartened as I had some stomach upset and know there is inflammation and retention which should resolve itself this week. A few FDs will help starting with today. I will have miso for lunch. Dinner is undecided as yet.

My Fitbit stopped working a few weeks ago so am trying to reset it in the hope of reviving it. I find tracking my steps helps a lot. I am going to do some Just Dance later and think I might dust dowm the old Gillian Michael's beginner Shred DVD.

Good luck to all my fellow fasters today.

MadauntofA · 09/11/2020 07:30

I'm joining you Petronelle. I have a crazy stressful day today, so have both my miso soup and my go to 300cal lunch if it gets too much and I need to convert to a mini FD. Either way I can keep on track and adjust later in the week.

harriethoyle · 09/11/2020 07:38

Morning @Petronelle and @MadauntofA I'm joining you today. Seeing if I can push through to an early supper of fishcakes and veg tonight. Lots of black coffee and water!

Bottl · 09/11/2020 08:16

Please add me to the list today Smile

I made broccoli soup yesterday (which tastes much better than I was expecting!) so will be having that for lunch if I can't go through until this evening. Dinner will be chicken and salad or maybe aircrisped veg if I need something hot.

Good luck Monday fasters!!

KylieKoKo · 09/11/2020 12:44

I am also fasting today.

I have a can of weight watchers chicken noodle soup for a late lunch and then will be having sea bass and veg roast in olive oil spray for my main meal and a boiled egg to eat before bed.

I am doing a livestream HIIT class later on in an attempt to remain active during this lockdown.

Good luck fellow fasters.

KylieKoKo · 09/11/2020 15:45

Weight watchers chicken noodle soup is pretty grim. I had to add lots of salt and pepper to make it edible

Would not recommend

Darker · 09/11/2020 16:31

I'm really sorry but that made me laugh, Kylie.

I ate loads yesterday and I'm ravenous. I keep walking to the kitchen looking for air to eat.

ListeningQuietly · 09/11/2020 16:47

Kylie
I admit that even when I did WW I avoided all branded foods.

The best soups IMHO are the tubs of fresh from the supermarket
things like this
www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/fresh-soup/sainsburys-tomato--lentil---red-pepper-soup-600g
less than 400 calories a pot
and incredibly filling

this one
www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/fresh-soup/sainsburys-moroccan-spiced-chicken---chickpea-soup--taste-the-difference-600g
makes a fantastic shakshouka base Grin

They are more expensive but if you are doing strict fasting, one of them for supper with some fresh parmesan grated on top and a few grissini
adds up to 450 calories and you cannot MOVE afterwards