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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Darker · 05/11/2020 08:04

NFD today. Enjoyed porridge, miso soup and pears yesterday despite having a stressful, shitty day and wanting to comfort eat.

harriethoyle · 05/11/2020 08:24

I'm the lightest I have been since December 2018!!! And I feel it too, which is much more important than what the scales say!

Salmon and veg for tea tonight in an attempt to capitalise...

Darker · 05/11/2020 09:18

Yay, Harriet.

cerealkillah · 05/11/2020 10:16

I ended my FD yesterday on 538 calories, so I'm delighted with that. I went out and stuck to sparkling water.
I'm also planning enjoying the sun @ListeningQuietly and doing lots of walking.
I weighed this morning and the weight does seem to be disappearing quite quickly at the moment. But I am only on week 2.

cerealkillah · 05/11/2020 10:17

@harriethoyle

I'm the lightest I have been since December 2018!!! And I feel it too, which is much more important than what the scales say!

Salmon and veg for tea tonight in an attempt to capitalise...

That's fantastic news. Well done!!
Artesia · 05/11/2020 14:31

@Bottl - am new to 5:2, so was looking for inspiration and saw your question about broccoli stalks. They are amazing sliced up and roasted with a spray of low cal oil and some spices (curry powder will do). Properly delicious

ListeningQuietly · 05/11/2020 16:28

No gym today, but as I ache from head to foot after yesterday, I did paperwork.
Tonight DD is cooking a tofu curry
and my champagne is still in the wine rack

Its amazing how much better I feel going back to strict 16:8 and mild 5:2

ListeningQuietly · 05/11/2020 16:51

I was watching a different video and this one came up

Weight loss transforms much more than your size

Yoga of ANY kind will help
but 5:2 is the best way I know for ladies of a certain age Grin

KylieKoKo · 05/11/2020 17:00

I'm fasting today. I've only had miso soup so far and I'm ravenous so I'm making a bean and mushroom chili

moonlight1705 · 05/11/2020 21:38

I was meant to be fasting today and kinda did it. Ended up on 940 calories so it was a mini instead. I was just so hungry at breakfast that I ended up having cereal and it went from there.

Going to aim for three solidly good non FDs now and really concentrate on not going over TDEE.

Beautiful3 · 05/11/2020 22:08

Haven't been on here for a week. Nice to see everyone doing so well, keep it up. My mum passed away last week so I've hardly eaten anything. Will resume fasting when I start to get my appetite back.

Bottl · 05/11/2020 22:12

@Beautiful3 - so sorry to hear that Flowers

moonlight1705 · 05/11/2020 22:17

I'm so sorry to hear that beautiful, it is such a shit time trying to get through the first few days. Flowers

ListeningQuietly · 05/11/2020 22:17

Beautiful
Sorry to hear about your mum.
Do not worry about any sort of fasting just yet.
The stress will make you lose weight.
If anything, focus on eating plenty of tasty healthy food that makes you feel energetic and helps you get through the paperwork and organising.
5:2 will wait for you.

MadauntofA · 06/11/2020 06:19

I'm so sorry Beaut. Make sure you look after yourself. Thanks

robertsmithscorpsebride · 06/11/2020 09:49

wow, where has this week gone....

beautiful I am so sorry for your loss, be kind to yourself, grief is exhausting Flowers

Well done to all the fasters, I had an okay NFD yesterday but didn't MFP it and think I might be over (this is why I need to calorie count) FD today, hungry already but going to manage until lunch. who else is fasting with me today??

ListeningQuietly · 06/11/2020 11:57

Not fasting today
but have not eaten yet (just drinking tea and doing some work)
Remember, whether its a FD or an NFD
no snacking
drink plenty of water
stand up where possible - ideally on one leg
and go out and catch some sunshine in the middle of the day if you can
(Vitamin D is good for health in general and COVID especially)

harriethoyle · 06/11/2020 12:39

@Beautiful3 so sorry to hear this. I lost my mum in August and it's such an exhausting, bewildering time. Take good care Flowers

moonlight1705 · 06/11/2020 14:01

I am so glad you reminded us to get outside listening. I'm writing essays today and got a bit headachy so went into the garden after reading your post.

I'm potting on strawberry runners so went out to plant them up. You never guess what I found on the old plants though! Actual strawberries growing in November Shock and one of the roses is still blooming. Some beauty in my life right now and feeling ready to start the next essay.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !
5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !
ListeningQuietly · 06/11/2020 14:38

Moonlight
That rose is gorgeous.

At the moment the hornbeam across the road is GLOWING in the sunshine.
Fresh air is one of the best medicines.

KylieKoKo · 06/11/2020 14:45

So sorry to hear hear that @Beautiful3

You must, of course, focus on looking after yourself at this time. Fasting can wait!

KylieKoKo · 06/11/2020 14:49

Non fast day for me today. I had a bacon sandwich for breakfast and do not feel hungry for lunch so will probably just wait to my evening meal. I might have an apple if I get peckish mid-afternoon.

I did a live streamed strength and conditioning class earlier and will walk to the big supermarket rather than doing what I usually do going to the little one at the end of the road. I am determined to keep active this lockdown!

Darker · 06/11/2020 17:46

Fasting today. Have had porridge and have now been tempted by a persimmon. I've never had one before.

Beautiful I'm sorry for your loss. Take care.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 06/11/2020 18:03

Fd finished here on about 600....
Did you enjoy the persimmon darker I dont think I've ever had one.

Darker · 06/11/2020 18:26

The persimmon was nice enough. Smooth texture, pleasing flavour and not too juicy. I'd eat one again.

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