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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Bottl · 09/11/2020 16:51

I can recommend tinned minestrone...any brand. Under 150cals for the tin and feels quite substantial because of the chunky veg and pasta.

MadauntofA · 09/11/2020 16:57

That Sainsbury's Moroccan soup is absolutely delicious- I have half with a slice of toast for lunch on NFDs sometimes, and it does fill you up!

KylieKoKo · 09/11/2020 18:29

Thanks all
I've tried a few of the Sainsbury's soups and I love them. I normally have them with bread and butter but I guess I could do without that on a fast day.

My evening meal of garlic fried sea bass and roast veg (with olive oil spray) is proving much more delicious.

harriethoyle · 09/11/2020 18:49

Kitchen closed on 482 after 2 fishcakes for tea. Were scrumptious but hard work to get through to dinner... one FD down, one to go on Weds!

ListeningQuietly · 09/11/2020 18:52

So far today I've had a load of tea and a handful of raisins

doing a version of Eggs Alpine for supper
(layer of spinach into a gratin dish, crack in 3 eggs per person, cover with a layer of STRONG grated cheddar, bake, serve with a slice of wholemeal bread)
its around 600 calories all up but you feel full till lunch the next day

MadauntofA · 09/11/2020 20:06

Kitchen closed here at 520 with a cup of tea in my hand to enjoy! Well done fellow fasters. Eggs alpine sounds lovely Listening - do you manage to catch them before the yolks lose their runniness?!

Petronelle · 09/11/2020 23:45

First FD of the week in the bag on 530 and 15,528 steps clocked on my Fitbit. No complaints from me. It a fairly easy day.Think I will try the B2B this week again. See you all in the morning.

moonlight1705 · 10/11/2020 09:31

Morning, doing my first FD of the week. I've got shakshuka for lunch as found it and adored it as a meal. Fishcakes later but am feeling the hunger today so really resisting temptation.

I like the Glorious Skinny Tuscan Chicken soup for lunch as it is only 111 per portion.

cerealkillah · 10/11/2020 10:18

My FD yesterday ended on 669 calories. Slightly higher than planned as my fishcakes mysteriously disappear from the fridge, so I had to have something.
The soup recommendations sound good. I'll have a look at those. I'm still finding I need something at breakfast so have been choosing berries and yogurt.

ListeningQuietly · 10/11/2020 10:59

Madaunt
In that recipe, no, the eggs are hard, sadly.
A variant is to cook the spinach base and then put poached eggs on top.
Also works with shakshuka.

Cereal
If you have yoghurt, make sure its full fat
as dairy fats are great at sating appetite.

My fave holiday breakfast is a bowl of plain yoghurt with a spoonful of honey stirred into it. (curds and trickle they called it in Sri Lanka)

Petronelle
My DD was running laps of the dining table last night to hit her fitbit steps. I burned calories laughing at her Grin

cerealkillah · 10/11/2020 14:12

Thanks @ListeningQuietly . I'm used to years of WW and SW, so I still have low fat yogurt at home. I shall treat myself to full fat Greek, which is the best!

ListeningQuietly · 10/11/2020 19:32

cereal
moving eating habits back to the least processed item

  • like full fat (all 6%) yoghurt
is a mindset change but if you look at the ingredient list of a 0% fat dairy product you'll realise that you are buying air water and emulsifiers, not good.

Tonight I had a veggie pasta bake with parmesan and pepper on top
around 600 calories, but I'd only had some raisins during the day

How is everybody else doing ?

harriethoyle · 10/11/2020 19:58

Nice light day today - coming in at c.1200 cals. Fasting tomorrow but flying tomorrow evening at 8 so need to leave for the airport at 4.30... at this rate, will end up taking a sandwich to eat in departures! But easy to fast with everything closed...

ListeningQuietly · 10/11/2020 20:36

Harriet
rather than a sarnie, take a little tub of dried fruit and nuts that you can pick on over the whole of checking and being dry can go through security Smile

harriethoyle · 10/11/2020 20:42

I think that might be quite high calorie for a fast day, no? I've looked up the rules and a sarnie should be allowed.. and if it isn't, I'll eat it before I go through at warp speed! 😂

ListeningQuietly · 10/11/2020 20:46

Ah true,
the other option is a pot of chunks of raw carrot - again east yo carry and you can refill it at the other end to bring home Smile

harriethoyle · 10/11/2020 21:38

Mmm. I love raw carrot. That's a great suggestion!

moonlight1705 · 10/11/2020 22:17

My FD turned into a mini at 854 calories. I think I'll make tomorrow a mini too and then do a proper FD on Thursday.

I've got a lovely chicken Winter stew for tomorrow so nice and healthy. Smile

Petronelle · 11/11/2020 06:35

Listening I made your dish yesterday with five eggs and blue cheese and shared it with my husband for dinner with some salad. It was delicious and so satisfying. I calculate my two egg share to have come in at about 300 and with miso at lunch, a few raw carrots and milk in coffee total cals were in or around 500. I also got in a lovely long walk in the woods and hit over 24,000 steps. Scales this morning show a 1 kg loss. Happy enough with that.

I am back to work today so looking forward to porridge at 10.30 break and going to aim for TDEE -10%.

Have a good day everyone.

harriethoyle · 11/11/2020 10:04

Anyone fasting with me today? Just did an online kettlebells class and my glasses steamed up!!

moonlight1705 · 11/11/2020 10:47

harriet I am doing a mini today to go with yesterday's one.

Well done petronella on 1kg, that's great!

Darker · 11/11/2020 10:58

I'm fasting.

I've been struggling a bit with the days in between - feeling really hungry, eating too much, and feeling very tired (had to nap for an hour yesterday). Might be PMT or maybe I need to go to 5:2 for a bit (currently 4:3).

Anyway I've just had porridge and have a salad ready for later. Busy this evening so I'll have a good distraction.

KylieKoKo · 11/11/2020 11:44

I am feeling a bit under the weather today (no covid symptoms) so I am wondering if I should cancel my fast day today.

I don't feel particular hungry but fasting when potentially unwell doesn;t sound like a good idea.

cerealkillah · 11/11/2020 11:45

I'm fasting today. I'm on week 3 and still find I need a small breakfast. I've planned all three meals and that is just under 500 calories. I might pop out later for a skinny flat white as that's only 49 calories and feels like a treat.
I'm aiming not to snack at all between meals today.

KylieKoKo · 11/11/2020 11:47

@Darker if you are 4:3 you can probably eat quite a bit over TDEE on normal days and still be in a calorie deficit.

I really admire your willpower on being able to do 4:3. At the end of my second fast I am so glad to be done with it for the week, I can't imagine adding another!

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