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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
harriethoyle · 02/11/2020 12:37

You can do it @inthethickofit19!

I'm feeling hungry and manageable. I've got 4 days of online training and so far it's been fascinating so that helps the time pass.

Mr Harriet has also concurred with my suggestion of a dry week booze wise, which is really helpful because it's much easier to do it with someone than watch them drinking delicious wine Grin Roll on Friday!

Bottl · 02/11/2020 13:11

Just checking in.
FD today after a disastrous weekend (foodwise). Water and a coffee so far. Going to try and hold out until teatime and then have a very early night - hopefully my face will look less grumpy tomorrow.
Hope all other Monday fasters are doing ok

Darker · 02/11/2020 13:13

My stomach doesn't agree with me that its a fast day today. I've had porridge and tea.

KylieKoKo · 02/11/2020 14:08

I overdid it at the weekend too @bottl

I'll be happy if I haven't gained when I weigh myself after my second fast. Weight loss seems unlikely!

Bottl · 02/11/2020 14:41

It's frustrating isn't it, @KylieKoKo

As much as I'm cross with myself, I'd normally have thrown in the towel by now so the very fact that I'm fasting today is definite progress for me.

KylieKoKo · 02/11/2020 15:11

I don't feel too bad about it @bottl as I enjoyed it and it was TOTM related so I am always really hungry at that time.

I think it's good to remember that weight loss takes time and before I would have just eaten that much and not made up for it fasting. As long as we make more good choices than we did before we will lose weight. One weekend is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things!

ListeningQuietly · 02/11/2020 15:13

I hopped on the scales this morning (as the gym will be shut by Friday) Sad
A dry week in this house too.

So far I've had three pints of tea and a left over chimichanga for lunch.
Supper will be a spanish omelette made with leftovers from the weekend its actually yummy, honest

WE ALL need to stay focussed and try to eat and drink "clean"
use the Lockdown as a break for our systems

cerealkillah · 02/11/2020 16:01

That's good advice @ListeningQuietly. I had some alcohol over the weekend, but not too much. And whilst I did snack, I found it was nowhere as much as when I'm not fasting. If I didn't drink I know I'd snack even less.

KylieKoKo · 02/11/2020 16:33

DP and I have decided that this lockdown will be a dry lockdown. We can't go to the pub anyway and we might as well save money and our waistlines.

Seems like a great idea now, let's see how we feel on Friday night.

KylieKoKo · 02/11/2020 16:35

I am off to my second to last HIIT class before lockdown soon.
The gym I go to also offers livestream sessions and I have made a commitment to myself that I will keep up my 3 - 4 classes a week through lockdown.

harriethoyle · 02/11/2020 18:09

Kitchen closed on 498 calories! Already thinking about breakfast tomorrow... Grin

Bottl · 02/11/2020 18:20

I've waited all day to eat and it was all over in approx 30 seconds Grin

What's for breakfast, @harriethoyle?

My food delivery just arrived - I'm regretting adding to the order when my mind wasn't particularly focussed - carb overload Blush. Managed to wedge most of it into the freezer.

Darker · 02/11/2020 18:29

Drum roll..... I am wearing my favourite jeans

The ones I couldn't get into a couple of months ago.

Have been doing the Five-Two fasting jig around the bedroom.

Bottl · 02/11/2020 18:31

Woohoo!!! That's fantastic!

harriethoyle · 02/11/2020 18:36

Fabulous @Darker! Well done!

@Bottl - Greek yoghurt, granola and honey I think Grin

Bottl · 02/11/2020 18:46

Yum!

ListeningQuietly · 02/11/2020 19:01

Well done Darker
excellent progress

KylieKoKo · 02/11/2020 19:35

Amazing news @Darker

Hearing things like that helps me to stay motivated to carry on.

MadauntofA · 02/11/2020 21:29

Fab NSV darker! Kitchen closed here earlier at 520. Always seems hard going the first FD after even a small break. Looking forward to porridge tomorrow! Well done fellow Monday fasters!

Petronelle · 02/11/2020 22:32

Well that's day 1 in the bag. Pretty happy that I stuck to the plan apart from half a biscuit with my after dinner cuppa. I mightght try a back to back - I'll see how I feel in the morning.n

Petronelle · 02/11/2020 22:48

Well Day 1 over and I am happy enough as it pretty much went according to plan. I finished at about 480.

Darker · 02/11/2020 23:03

Well done,Petronelle

cerealkillah · 03/11/2020 08:14

That's a brilliant NSV @Darker well done!!

My kitchen closed at 628 yesterday. 100 of those were hot choc and a SW hifi bar. Not so proud of that, but happy overall.

inthethickofit19 · 03/11/2020 08:22

@Darker congratulations!!

I've come to a conclusion. TMI When I'm feeling a bit 'blocked up' I am more likely to eat and eat Hmm

Lots of water today.

ListeningQuietly · 03/11/2020 09:37

Morning all,
the sun is shining
BigChocFrenzy wishes you well but she is now staying offline until the US election is done GrinWink[scared]

Lets all drink less for lockdown

and focus on jumping about as much as we can even if the gyms are shut - LOTS of places are doing streaming classes .... I reckon I can find a morning class every day of the week.