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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
robertsmithscorpsebride · 31/10/2020 09:03

That's rubbish 'moon' but I'm in the same boat, didnt bother weighing last week as totm but have had 2 good weeks, got on scales this morning and nowt! Although I'm definitely fitting clothes better and feel trimmer- will keep on and hope it translates into a change in the numbers soon!

Good luck weekend fasters Grin

ListeningQuietly · 31/10/2020 12:11

cancan
Have a look at yoga, pilates and (so long as the pools stay open)
aqua and swimming.
Marching up and down a pool as fast as you can is astonishingly hard work

and YYY to actually weighing and measuring food rather than estimating
as lots and lots of research has shown that people under estimate by about a third
AND
never count back exercise calories

KylieKoKo · 31/10/2020 14:22

Do most people here coubt calories on non fast days? I don't and have been losing but I'm aware that might need to as a get closer to a healthy weight and the thought of it depresses me as I'm doing this precisely because I don't want to calorie count everyday!

cerealkillah · 31/10/2020 16:15

@Coffeeandcookies I'm not fasting again till Monday, but I am finding I'm much less hungry. I did weigh myself this morning and I've already lost 2lbs this week.
The best advice for me has been from @ListeningQuietly about the TDEE. I have had some wine yesterday, but I've definitely cut down on the snacking.

Petronelle · 31/10/2020 16:34

Tonight is pizza night in our house so trying to eat a little less today. I had toast and tea for breakfast at 11. At about 2.30 I had soup and cauliflower rice. I am looking forward to my pizza with beer later.

I have struggled with exercise sue to a few injuries that are taking forever to heal. My daughter suggested Just Dance and she fired up the old Wii. I did 5 routines and it was such fun and got everything pumping. I think it should be easy enough to ntegrare a few dances of these into my daily routine.

ListeningQuietly · 31/10/2020 16:43

Kylie
I tend to do MFP for one week in 8 - to make sure I am eating what I think I'm eating.

Sadly it looks like all gyms are closing next week
but outdoor exercise will still be allowed
so I may have to get into boot camp classes
and back on the Zoom yoga / pilates

I've also decided to try to drink a LOT less in November.
You lot can be my conscience Grin

KylieKoKo · 31/10/2020 17:04

I'm gutted about the gyms @ListeningQuietly

cerealkillah · 31/10/2020 17:08

It's a shame about the gyms. DS works in a leisure centre. He said they keep it spotlessly clean, and barely anyone goes. It seems silly to close them.

ListeningQuietly · 31/10/2020 17:11

If they do close the gyms, many may not be able to re open unless a GOOD support package is arranged

its not looking pretty out there
BUT
Stick with the 5:2 as being fitter and healthier and leaner is an important factor in reducing your risk of COVID and chronic diseases

Cancangirlie · 31/10/2020 18:35

Thank you ListeningQuietly I've never done any pilates, I will certainly google it.

ListeningQuietly · 31/10/2020 18:42

Cancan
Pilates is FAB
I did it all the way through my second pregnancy and was back in jeans after 4 days Grin
It works every bit of your core and your posture and improves strength.
I prefer Yoga, but both are great.
Exercise is key to staying lean and healthy : Couch to 5k, Jillian Michaels, Les Mills online
chose which works for you
but do one of them Smile

MadauntofA · 01/11/2020 10:16

Loads of great 5:2ing on this thread!! After almost 2 weeks of abandoning 5:2 with COVID in the house, v limited exercise, and even (whispers) some snacking Blush, 2kg gain. Couldn't have managed proper FDs with family meal times being such a highlight of the day and a v grumpy unwell but actually not that unwell DH. Managed to avoid infection myself, and DDs back to school tomorrow, so going to do some cooking for Monday and Wednesday FDs next week.
Pilates is FAB!! A recent convert, but when you have a good instructor, and you do it properly it really makes a difference to posture, tone and those niggles that start in your 40s.

Coffeeandcookies · 01/11/2020 12:25

Aw Madaunt, you've had a trying couple of weeks! Glad you're getting back into routine again now, you'll soon lose those extra 2kg again.

Question for you all - is it actually a NSV if your skirt falls down? Blush

MadauntofA · 01/11/2020 13:25

I'd call that a big fat NSV Coffee . Hope it didn't reveal too much! Grin

ListeningQuietly · 01/11/2020 13:27

Coffee
Definitely Grin

Coffeeandcookies · 01/11/2020 19:18

What's everybody planning for this week? I'm considering doing b2b days on Tue and Wed. Have never done a b2b before, but those days work better for me regarding other commitments and family meals this week.

KylieKoKo · 01/11/2020 19:28

I'm planning tomorrow and Wednesday as fast days.

On the menu tomorrow is miso soup and salad for a late lunch then a main evening meal of sea bass and roast veg (using olive oil spray)

What do other Monday fasters have planned?

KylieKoKo · 01/11/2020 19:30

Definitely a victory @coffeeandcookies!

harriethoyle · 01/11/2020 20:21

I'm fasting tomorrow and Wednesday - going to try and push through lunch tomorrow and have spag bol for supper. Means I'm FAR less hungry in the evening but getting there can be a struggle! Lots of water and black coffee I think...

MadauntofA · 01/11/2020 20:49

I'm joining you Kylie with miso soup for lunch and then sea bass with stir fry veg and a little yoghurt afterwards.

Petronelle · 02/11/2020 05:56

Hi there, today is my first proper day back fasting. I have weighed myself and taken my measurements. I usually do Monday and Wednesday but might attempts a B2B. Lunch will be glass of kefir and a cup of miso. Dinner is pepperonata (peppers, eggplant and tomatoes ) and a little roast chicken. Good luck to my fellow fasters.

inthethickofit19 · 02/11/2020 07:15

Morning all,

It was my birthday a few days ago and I've not been v good over the last 4 days  but I plan to be back on it today.

Need to drink lots of water and hydrate myself as I feel I haven't drank nearly enough (plus too much fizzy ).

Also nearing The end of TOTM so that should help keep away from the munchies now.

I really enjoy how 5:2 teaches me real hunger - it really amazes me how much I've ignored it over the years and ate when I've already got food sitting in me

Can anyone recommend any online Pilates? I have 2 toddlers and fibromyalgia and hyper mobile joints, I work part time and struggling to fit everything in. However I feel very stiff at the moment. I love Pilates but yoga is no good for the joints. I bought an exercise bike during lockdown and managed to build up to 10 mins but the younger toddler won't let me do it just now (18 months) and I'm so shattered by the time they are in bed/ don't want to stimulate myself too close to bedtime. I think I could follow a Pilates routine having done it in the past and loved it!

Also need to check out those decathlon thermals you mentioned @ListeningQuietly you are doing a fab job and it's much appreciated!

cerealkillah · 02/11/2020 09:16

Morning all. Week 2 for me. I'm fasting today and Wednesday. I still have to have a light breakfast (yogurt and satsuma) as I struggle without food.
Last week went really well. I am actually still going to (but not following) Slimming World. I have bought a countdown there so don't want to waste the money. Tonight is weigh in so it'll be interesting to see how much I've lost this last week.

ListeningQuietly · 02/11/2020 11:56

Fasting today - its sunny
stay positive
stay focussed

inthethickofit19 · 02/11/2020 12:10

Feel good for drinking lots of water today but feel like having a big lunch Sad it was a stressful morning with my little one having conjunctivitis and it being BD1 at work. Determined to keep this a FD though.