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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
FlyingByTheSeatof · 15/10/2020 09:30

My Covid test results came through early this morning as negative so that's good news.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2020 10:26

That's good news, flying
Now give yourself plenty of TLC, plenty of rest and sleep
Don't go back to work (if you have a job) before you are fully recovered

Good luck today, moonlight
That early night should have done you good
You may need a bit more sleep if you are doing 3 FDs

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 15/10/2020 11:29

Thanks so much.

NFD today. Will be having fish and chips tonight with DH as he returns from his work trip. I've had breakfast - 2 pieces of toast, 2 eggs, hash brown and half a tin of small beans.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I didn't need the second slice of bread.

I'll try and half my portion of fish and chips and keep some for tomorrow instead of eating it all tonight. Hopefully I won't be too much over TDEE then

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2020 15:19

Yum, inthethick
If you have some mushy peas with your fish & chips and plenty of vinegar
it tastes even better, makes it healthier, reduces insulin impact

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 15/10/2020 17:10

Forgot to update after my b2b Monday and Tuesday! Another 1.3kg off. 1 to go before I'm back to pre hols week.

Have had a good week generally. Healthy packed lunches, saving calories and pounds! And having my first glass of wine tonight since Saturday, which I'm really looking forward to. Unsurprisingly I turned to the bottle a bit over the last couple of months and was very conscious of wanting to reign that back in. So am counting 4 days off as a real NSV.

Some excellent SV and NSV up thread - well done everyone!

harriethoyle · 15/10/2020 17:11

Rein*

Stupid autocorrect

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2020 18:35

Congratulations on your SV, Harriet

Good progress with the booze
Keep it to one glass per evening - moderation is key - and you'll do well

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2020 18:36

That's one glass when you have it, of course !
A few off-days per week are important, but then be moderate on the other days

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 15/10/2020 19:29

FD abandoned at lunch time as my day descended into chaos, and mentally I needed food!!! I think I'll try a healthy end of the week and start again with a FD on Monday.
Great progress Harriet!
How were the fish and chips Inthethick?

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2020 22:46

Just switch to healthy TLC NFDs until Monday, MadAunt Sometimes you need more food !

I recommend you go for satisfying meals but add plenty of veg,
no snacks between of course

and no junk - to help make up for the missing FD

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 16/10/2020 10:30

Morning All

Good outcome on your test flying hope you are feeling better?
Fab SV harriet Grin

mmmm fish and chips and mushy peas FD for me today so I can only dream Smile anyone else fasting with me?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2020 10:38

Good luck, Robert and any other Friday fasters

To stop drooling 🤣 chant the FD mantra:

"I can have it tomorrow"

and enjoy a Saturday fish 'n chippy supper ! 👍

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 16/10/2020 11:00

I am chanting that bcf DH and DS want to go for a curry tomorrow (maybe the last meal out before pubs / restaurants close again here) Indian wouldn't be my first choice but we are going with the majority - so that means not very much to eat until dinnertime tomorrow Shock

FlyingByTheSeatof · 16/10/2020 13:30

Starting to feel a bit better. Still have horrid taste and smell going on bleurgh and having to fast between antibiotics as they have to be taken on an empty tummy. Appetite is low but I'm wanting sweet tasting things so have been drinking coffee with sweetners all morning. Not sure what I fancy later so I'll just see how it goes. Actually I'm going to treat myself to a hot chocolate right now.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 16/10/2020 18:13

Hope you enjoyed your hot choc flying

Going to be slightly over today at 570cals, I need a bit more protein today so having sliced Turkey with my soup.....

How's everyone else getting on today? 😃

Coffeeandcookies · 16/10/2020 18:25

FD today, just had a lovely omelette for dinner and am on 624 calories. Am telling you all this so I feel more accountable and don't open the kitchen again this evening Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2020 20:01

That lean protein is worth it, Robert and it's a good figure for an FD

Well done too, Coffee
I'll set my hunter killer satellite to watch over your shoulder for the rest of the FD 🛰 Grin

Take care of yourself Flying plenty of rest & hot drinks
I hope you could taste your hot choc properly

At least you are well-trained when it comes to fasting before your antibiotics !

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 17/10/2020 08:22

Well done coffee hope you managed to stay out of the kitchen 😃

2lbs off this week, so 5lbs in 2 weeks, v v happy with that! Gonna to have a very light day food wise washing for an Indian meal tonight, yum 😋😋😋

Good luck to any weekend fasters

robertsmithscorpsebride · 17/10/2020 09:02

'Washing' was meant to say 'as going' 🤔 why auto correct changed it to that I have no idea!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2020 09:52

Congratulations on your SV, Robert
Good progress and a good plan for the day
Enjoy your meal out
Next time it should be your turn to choose, so you can have that fish'n chips then if you still fancy it

I'm having a Saturday maintenance miniFD
Anyone else fasting today ?

OP posts:
Darker · 17/10/2020 13:53

Feeling pleased after 2nd week, having managed 3 FDs each week and sustained the 10,000 steps a day target.

I went to bed feeling hungry last night but wasn't hungry at all this morning and ended up eating breakfast at lunchtime.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2020 15:52

Good progress, Darker
You are in the fasting swing

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 18/10/2020 07:49

Morning all.

So Thursday was - breakfast 2 eggs, 2 slices of toast, half a tin of beans and 1 hash brown). Dinner was takeaway fish and chips. Also had one stick of a twirl (90 Cals). Blush

Friday was supposed to be a fast day but due to change of plans I had one massive buffet Meal at 3pm followed by a cupcake at 8pm Blush

Saturday started off as a FD but I screwed up a bit - had 1 chapatti home made with egg and potato curry. Followed by a can of Fanta and half a slice of wedding cake Blush

I know there's a lot of work to be done but at least I am taking note now to guide me.

Weighed at 9.11.3lbs this morn so not far off where I was which is positive I guess.

Back to work tomorrow and hopefully in a better routine

inthethickofit19 · 18/10/2020 07:52

@MadauntofA they were delicious!

I'm really struggling with wanting to reward myself with junk once the kids are in bed. Last night I nearly caved and ordered pizza 🍕 but I didn't! I fell asleep around 10:30 but had spent at least an hour browsing social media Blush

inthethickofit19 · 18/10/2020 07:54

Day 23 of my cycle and I always crave stodgy carbs massively around this time ...