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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
harriethoyle · 12/10/2020 20:33

Hi Big Choc and fellow fasters!

I am back after a couple of months off the thread (although not off 5:2). Lost my Mum 6 weeks ago, after she became ill at the beginning of summer and, as you can imagine, normal life went out of the window.

Back at work now, and back in a routine, including checking in here. So! I am on 618 for the day, and doing b2b with chilli con carne for dinner tomorrow and a zoom exercise class planned. Feeling strong but going to have a bath to ensure no temptation is given in to.

Well done fellow fasters and good luck to those with me tomorrow! Off to catch up on the thread...

KylieKoKo · 12/10/2020 20:40

I'm so sorry for your loss @harriethoyle

BigChocFrenzy · 12/10/2020 21:03

My sympathies for your loss, Harriet 💐
Do take care of yourself

Well done on your FD, What, Beaut, MadAunt, Harriet

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/10/2020 21:08

Did you enjoy your HIIT, Kylie ?

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 12/10/2020 21:15

It wasn't too bad @BigChocFrenzy

I was feeling a bit tired after a very late night on Saturday but I actually feel less fatigued for having done it.

It's strange as I always used to make sure I had eaten before going to the class but I've found that it actually doesn't seem to make much difference.

harriethoyle · 12/10/2020 21:24

Thank you both. Has been a very odd, sad time but we got through it. Nice to be starting to get back to normality... although things are still up and down. The other day I cried at the dog's (positive!) scan results at the vets thus cementing my reputation as a crazy dog lady Grin

harriethoyle · 12/10/2020 21:25

I was supposed to do HIIT tonight @KylieKoKo but I felt EXHAUSTED. Maybe I should have followed your example and got more energy!

MadauntofA · 12/10/2020 22:02

I'm so sorry Harriet, especially difficult during this time. Keep looking after yourself.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 12/10/2020 23:01

Sorry for you loss @harriethoyle

Beautiful3 · 13/10/2020 02:18

I'm so sorry harriet. That's so sad. Sending hugs Flowers

MadauntofA · 13/10/2020 07:39

Slow and steady loss here - down 9kg, but more importantly 4 inches off my waist!! Taken 4 months so far, and still 3kg to reach 25 BMI, but v happy with the progress.

harriethoyle · 13/10/2020 08:19

Thanks all Flowers

Excellent progress @MadauntofA! On that rate only another month or so til you reach goal!

moonlight1705 · 13/10/2020 08:50

Morning all, just catching up on the chat. So sorry to hear your loss harriet, it is such a crap time.

I'm doing a FD today and hoping to really have nailed this week, might take the plunge and weigh again on Friday morning.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 13/10/2020 08:53

Well done @MadauntofA

Bottl · 13/10/2020 10:08

Sorry for your loss, @harriethoyle Flowers

@MadauntofA - great sv and fantastic inch loss.

@moonlight1705 - FD for me too today. I feel so tired though.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2020 12:10

Congratulations on your SV MadAunt and especially waist NSV
Fab progress
You are so near to that BMI milestone

Good luck today, moonlight, bottl and any other Tuesday fasters

I recommend you plan an early night, Bottl always good on an FD, to maximise fasting benefits
In the meantime, black coffee and a brisk walk outside, if it's not raining

OP posts:
Bottl · 13/10/2020 12:35

Thanks, BigChoc.
I had a cup of tea and a nursery run instead Grin
The children are just having their lunch and I'm waiting for mine to cook - might get us all out for a walk after that

Beautiful3 · 13/10/2020 15:47

Todays fast has ended on 643. Will try another fast day tomorrow. Well done Tuesday fasters!

Bottl · 13/10/2020 17:11

Well done, @Beautiful3. And good luck with your b2b tomorrow.

I've been hit by migraine symptoms this afternoon Sad so am feeling sorry for myself. Just finished work and trying to decide whether to eat my dinner and then go to bed early or have a power nap and then eat.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2020 18:34

Bottl If you are on an FD, have you had a tsp Marmite (10 cals) ?
I recommend glugging this down like medicine on FDs, mid-morning and / or mid-afternoon

It helps avoid headaches because it replenishes salt & minerals that are often low while your body is adapting to the much reduced food. It also boosts B vits

Well done on your FD, Beaut
You are rattling them off and making it look easy !

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 13/10/2020 18:44

Thanks @Bottl & BigChoc. Bottl I used to get headaches on fast days too. I found that eating a couple of almond nuts really helps. Make sure you drink plenty of water too. Hope you feel better soon.

Beautiful3 · 13/10/2020 18:45

A teaspoon of marmite helps too.

Bottl · 13/10/2020 19:16

Thanks both. My migraines are hormone related and put in an appearance every now and then. I've been tucked up under a blanket for 2 hours and feeling more human now but freezing. Just trying to talk myself into getting up to heat up my dinner.

Whattodowithaminute · 13/10/2020 19:32

Welcome back harriet and sorry to hear of your loss, be kind to yourself, a difficult few months...
Hope you feel better soonbottl
Well done on the school madaunt
I’ve done a b2b today and kitchen will close on 820 ish following miso pork and pak Choi for dinner tonight.... mmmmm

moonlight1705 · 13/10/2020 19:58

Ended the day on 604 and now am going to watch Bake Off and not get hungry!