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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2020 12:03

Inthethick If you find FDs tough, you could do Mosely's gentler 800 FDs instead of 500
It is important for your WOE to be sustainable

Or do the alternative plan of 3 miniFds (800-1000 cals, no booze, no junk)
e.g. on Mon+Wed+Fri or any days you like

Some general suggestions:

  1. Roughly plan your entire day's menu the day before - and then stick to it
    So decide the day before, including for NFDs, your protein, veg, fruit & starchy veg for each meal

  2. Your meals seem to lack veg.
    Aim for at least 2 different veg per main meal, 1 veg or fruit for others;
    Mosely says no more than 2 portions fruit per day, FD or NFD

Your plate needs to be at least ⅓ veg, preferably ½
Try cauliflower rice or broccoli rice to reduce your starchy carb portion size, e.g. half & half

  1. Watch portion size for creamy, oily sauces - best to have them separately, so you can se the amount
    Spread butter thinly if you have it and limit bread to 1 meal per day
    On FDs, go for tomato, or balsamic vinegar as sauce

  2. Each meal should contain some protein
    so e.g. never have fruit or cake on its own, but only as pud

  3. You can have a takeaway or treat meal on 5:2, but keep it to once per week

  4. Most important tip:
    no snacking between meals, not even on weekends on special occasions

Snacking keeps insulin raised between meals and not only hinders fat-burning through the day, but also increases overall hunger

Eat treats only as part of a meal, so e.g. cake, biscuits etc only as your pudding
This helps limit junk portion size, as you then don't eat them when hungry

The worst snacking is after supper,
because then you are shortening the overnight fast, which is when most fat-burning happens over the week, FDs & NFDs

  1. Tip:
    Right after your last planned meal of the day, drink water and then clean your teeth
    The fresh minty taste psychologically reduces the wish to put food in your mouth
    If you feel like having junk at other times, cleaning your teeth, or even a minty mouthwash helps

  2. Drink lots of water, still or fizzy, but not flavoured
    Jazz it up with ice and a slice if you like, e.g. some mint & cucumber

Mosely advises against fizzy flavoured drinks, even diet fizz, because it can spike insulin in some people
and longterm the mixture of added chemicals can change gut bacteria to increase fat storagd
If need be, start by limiting yourself to 1 can or glass per day

  1. Keep within NHS alcohol limits for the week and keep alcohol to 1 glass on the days you drink
    Never drink on FDs or miniFDs

  2. Aim for at least a brisk daily walk outside
    If possible have a 2-5 minute burst of HIIT most days - e.g. sprints, rope skipping, squats, pressups - Moselys "Fat Blasts"

Of course more exercise helps, but don't worry if at least you get a little regular exercise

Note:
with cardio exercise, it is best to have short intense sessions, because long swims or runs tend to increase hunger
Try strength and lifting.

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 18/10/2020 16:34

Thanks v much BCF. So kind of you to take time out.

inthethickofit19 · 19/10/2020 09:18

Somehow I've lost a lb overnight!

Fasting today. Anyone with me?

inthethickofit19 · 19/10/2020 09:20

I only fasted last Monday but probably had mini fasts on another day or two. Hoping to knuckle down this week.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses
MadauntofA · 19/10/2020 09:27

I'm joining you inthethick

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2020 09:58

Congratulations on your serendipitous SV, inthethick
That's the benefit of a good overnight fast and the miniFDs you managed

Good luck inthethick, MadAunt and any other Monday fasters

A brisk but sunny autumn day here, so I'm off for a walk along the Rhine Smile

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 19/10/2020 11:19

Enjoy your walk BigChoc. I'm fasting too, today! Fingers crossed I make it!

KylieKoKo · 19/10/2020 11:43

I am fasting today too.

I have planned miso soup and salad and a low calorie bean and mushroom chilli, with a snack of an egg if I am too hungry to sleep.

I also have a HIIT class later.

KylieKoKo · 19/10/2020 11:47

@inthethickofit19 I dream of weighing what you weigh!

inthethickofit19 · 19/10/2020 11:56

[quote KylieKoKo]@inthethickofit19 I dream of weighing what you weigh![/quote]
I'm only just 5"3 if that so I'm at upper end of BMI. I feel best at under 9 stone but not been that for years... just want to get it down now that I've had my kids. They are 3 and 1.

Struggling today. Feel cranky and irritable. Day 24 of cycle so bit early for pmt

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2020 12:21

Good luck to you too, Kylie, Beaut
Stay focused and you'll nail this !

OP posts:
Bottl · 19/10/2020 13:18

I'm fasting today too.

Last week was a bit of a washout, 5:2wise but am back on it today and feeling a bit more focussed.

Thank you for you post, BigChoc. It always helpful to remind myself of some of the key points.

I'm really cold today. Going to vacuum for a bit to warm up!!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2020 13:24

Good luck, Bottl
Vacuuming & dusting is an excellent idea to get warm

OP posts:
Coffeeandcookies · 19/10/2020 13:35

Afternoon everyone, just signing in for this week.

I've planned my meals out on MFP for Mon-Fri. This week will be FDs on Wed and Fri, just because the meals I've planned for the family these days are easy to adjust to reduce calories. It's one of the things I really like about this plan as you can adapt it to what is going on in normal life.

Got my measuring tape out yesterday to check and see how many inches I've lost, couldn't believe it when I held it at the size I used to be Blush Am really determined to find a way to maintain once I get to my target weight, can't let myself go back to that again.

Thank you as always BCF for all the advice and encouragement (and the spy drone...) Good luck to Monday fasters, great start to the week!

Beautiful3 · 19/10/2020 16:29

Looks like a mini fast happened instead! Kitchen closed at 720. Good luck Monday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2020 16:56

Well done, Beaut
You've still nailed an FD - it counts in Mosely's more gradual scheme of 800 cals
MiniFDs are 800-1000

Congratulations on a fab inches NSV, coffee and congrats from Spy in the Sky too !🛰
Let us know when you are near goal and I'll post the maintenance guide and palette of plans

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 19/10/2020 17:07

Thanks BigChoc, that's good to know. Roll on tomorrow!

Bottl · 19/10/2020 17:31

I've found today has been easier than usual. It's possibly because I was already well-stocked after the weekend Hmm
As a result of this, I didn't have my planned lunch so now I can't decide whether to have what I should have had for lunch or what I'd planned to have for dinner. Both would keep for another day. I do have a preference but it requires more effort to make.

Coffeeandcookies · 19/10/2020 17:51

Lol Bottl, I think you'll need to toss a coin to decide! 😂

Bottl · 19/10/2020 17:56

Half an hour later and I'm still undecided.

MadauntofA · 19/10/2020 19:31

Did you go for the easy or extra effort meal Bottl?
Kitchen closed here at 520. Well done fellow fasters.

KylieKoKo · 19/10/2020 19:38

I just finished a delicious bowl of 2 bean and mushroom chilli and feel fairly satisfied. That's it for me except a boiled egg later on this evening so I'm not too hungry to sleep. How's everyone else getting on?

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2020 20:28

Well done on your FDs, MadAunt, Kylie and all the Monday fasters

Come on, Bottl Don't leave us in suspense 😂
Which did you choose ?

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 19/10/2020 20:36

FD done ☑️ had baked potato, cheese and beans. Came in between 500-550 I think.

I'm not hungry but could easily eat Blush going to try and sleep ASAP. In bed already.

Bottl · 19/10/2020 21:06

Ha, ha, I went for the extra effort Grin and very nice it was too.

I just can't get warm so am going to bed I think.

Well done fellow fasters.

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