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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 11:01

Good luck, Robert

It is an easy trap to fall into - your subconscious telling you that loss means you can eat more !
Or more generally, rewarding yourself at the weekend for a good week's work.

Don't worry, now you know to watch out for that in future

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 23/06/2020 13:30

That's the thing though BCF, my cycles are approx 30 days and I'm on day 25 so not quite TOTM yet. I think I've seen this pattern before though, i get the bloat leading up to it?!

Will take note and compare for next time.

Beautiful3 · 23/06/2020 16:11

I felt alot slimmer today so dug out some shorts (that are a size too small). I was last in them back in 2018! I tried them on, and they actually fit me now (albiet a little roll around the tummy). Very happy with myself and its spurring me on!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 16:17

That's a motivating shorts NSV to enjoy this summer, beaut
Stay focused and you'll get a Shorts Falling Down NSV Grin

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 23/06/2020 16:28

I would love to have them falling down! I can but try! This 5:2 life style change is amazing. Thanks BigChocFrenzy.

emcla · 23/06/2020 17:33

Beautiful I feel your happiness. That’s great.

Beautiful3 · 23/06/2020 17:45

Thanks @emcla Smile

annabell22 · 23/06/2020 18:03

Wow, @Beautiful3 well done

End of FD 2 is looming for me. So far this week I have maintained last week's weight after FD2 and lost another 200g. Let's see what the morning brings!

Quackersandcheese3 · 23/06/2020 18:33

Would you guys try to keep up your fast days if you were doing a staycation with your social bubble ?

NathanNathan · 23/06/2020 19:29

Two mini fast days done this week (my week is Thursday to Thursday), last one tomorrow.

I would try to @Quackersandcheese3 because I know I'd be likely to go over TDEE a couple of days!

emcla · 23/06/2020 20:47

Well done Ann and Nathan. Day 1 of a b2b completed here.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 23:13

Well done emcla, Nathan, Anne

Quackers If you are having the equivalent of a holiday with other people, then I suggest you drop the fast days for that time
(but I'd keep them for a staycation on your own)

However I recommend always keeping the "no snacking between meals" rule

Also keep to NHS alcohol daily & weekly limits, so 1-2 glasses max on 5 nights per week; don't save it up for a heavy night.

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 23/06/2020 23:40

Inthethickofit I always get the bloat leading up to my period, then when it finally the scales drop.

Well done on getting into those shorts Beaituful3!

Good luck for the weigh in tomorrow annabell.

First FD of the week done and dusted for me today. Went well, but I didn’t drink enough water.

After a long weekend of celebrations (a couple of family members had their birthdays and it was Fathers’ Day) it feels good to be back on track.

After 3 weeks of loss, my weight has been stable for the last couple of weeks, with little effort. Looking forward to knuckling down and seeing the numbers on the scale go down.

DietChic · 24/06/2020 07:51

What satisfying NSV Beautiful3!

Quackers - I would bookend my holiday with FDs personally - and quite often don’t have breakfast anyway on holiday unless I am hungrier than usual. I think that helps.

FD2 today. The cupboards are bare so veg run is needed. Stir fry is a good idea!

moonlight1705 · 24/06/2020 08:20

I forgot to say I ended up on 606 calories yesterday.

Sounds like you are all doing so well - does anyone else stop feeling as hungry in the hot weather?

NathanNathan · 24/06/2020 08:49

Looking like I'll stay the same this week on my weigh in day tomorrow, I seem to have this pattern where I lose quite well for two weeks then barely anything for two weeks.

Still working on managing binge/stress eating, couldn't sleep last night worrying about something stupid and ended up scarfing two crumpets for absolutely no reason. Any tips gratefully received!

The first thing I should have done was have a pint of water... but it's not about feeling full it's definitely an emotional response. On that note anyone had any luck with counselling or CBT to address this?

annabell22 · 24/06/2020 08:54

@NathanNathan I adore crumpets so I can see the appeal, but did you stop to ask yourself WHY you were eating them? It sounds like you reflected on this afterwards, so is this something you can do in the moment before the 'damage' is done?

Weigh in after FD2 was a very small loss of just 100g, but in my experience tomorrow will also be a loss. We have a staycation this weekend so I have already planned my next FD for Sunday (my weekend is Fri/Sat). I tried on a load of swimwear this morning, but I am not ready for those yet - I will push them back in my drawer and continue to wear those I feel more comfortable in. I last wore those when I was about 7lbs lighter and that day will come again.

NathanNathan · 24/06/2020 09:08

Thanks @annabell22, makes complete sense - the point where I should just think no just before is the bit I struggle with.

I consider it, know I don't need the food, but the pull to "solve" the stress/sadness just overwhelms. It's definitely got better as I've managed my eating but is certainly still there, I wish I could crack it.

The swimwear will be waiting for you in seven pounds time! It won't be long Smile

Beautiful3 · 24/06/2020 10:11

Thanks @annabell22. I'm fasting today. Quite glad of the warm weather as it reduces my appetite. Good luck Wednesday fasters!

emcla · 24/06/2020 10:27

Day 2 of my b2b today. Hopefully the day will fly by. Have a litre of tea at the moment. Good luck to anyone fasting today.

Beautiful3 · 24/06/2020 10:34

We can do this @emcla!Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 11:17

Well done on your FD yesterday too, maz

Good luck on your b2b, emcl
and on your FD, Beaut

nathan If it's stress during the day, I would go for a brisk walk outside, or do a 5 -minute HIIT video
If you're at work, then walk around for a few minutes, preferably up and down the stairs if you have them

If it's at night, tell yourself you will consider your problem in the morning
then do this breating exercise for a couple of minutes,
all the time concentrating on your breathing, living in the moment:

.Inhale slowly through your nose for 4 seconds to fill your lungs
.Hold for 4 seconds
.Exhale slowly for 4 seconds

Repeat cycle several times
Then try to sleep

If that doesn't work, get up and clean your teeth, rinsing with mouthwash afterwards

Psychologically, this reduces the tempation of eating or drinking
You can have a couple of sips of water, but don't set yourself up for going to the loo all night

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 11:21

You'll wear your swimming gear soon, Annabell
It's an excellent minigoal to help focus

OP posts:
NathanNathan · 24/06/2020 11:38

@BigChocFrenzy that is so incredibly helpful that I feel a bit teary! What a wonderful support this thread is.

Practical steps to follow will help me a great deal. Thank you.

Quackersandcheese3 · 24/06/2020 12:32

Thanks for the tips @BigChocFrenzy @DietChic.