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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MazDazzle · 24/06/2020 12:43

Had a particularly sweaty (virtual) PT session this morning and a couple of mugs of black coffee. Looking forward to lunch! Grin

I’ve had a quick look through MN and there doesn’t appear to be a support thread for PMT, which I’m surprised at. I was wondering if anyone takes any supplements to ease symptoms? 1 - 2 weeks of the month my mood is low and some days I really struggle. I’m 39 and it’s getting worse with age. I track everything on the Clue app. I get symptoms the week before my period and also when I ovulate. If anyone has any suggestions, I’d be glad to hear them!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 12:44

You're both welcome Smile

Everyone:
post whenever you need a handhold or a vent;
someone is usually around, even if just for sympathy and sharing the same issues

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 12:54

Well done on the exercise, Maz
Evening Primrose oil has helped some with PMT

Research indicates Vit D (you should take atm anyway), Vit B complex, magnesium, potassium may help

It can be tempting to dive into the sugary treat cupboard, but that tends to make things worse,
because the symptoms can be related to changes in insulin metabolism, as the hormone balance changes

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 24/06/2020 13:06

Maz im 30 and experience this too so not sure if it's an age thing. I think it's got worse since I've had my second. I have some evening primrose oil from H&B but I get put off because it's in 1000mg capsules but it says to take 3x a day with a meal. I've started just taking 3 at once (started yesterday Grin) so hoping to stick to it and see how next month goes

MazDazzle · 24/06/2020 13:20

I used to take supplements before I was Expecting my youngest, then I switched to pregnancy supplements. Haven’t taken anything since he was born and that was 4 years ago!

emcla · 24/06/2020 15:40

La la la ...singing a little song here as I resist cakes in the staff room. Chicken fillet and lots of healthy salad for dinner. Sips tea, sings another little tune ....

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 16:08

la la la, emcla and the MN workday mantra:

"Communal food has poo crumbs & snot smears !" 💩 😂

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 24/06/2020 17:32

Don't forget the COVID smidgens in the communal foodGrin

emcla · 24/06/2020 18:49

Thanks guys. I resisted the poo and covid crumbs with a sprinkling of snot on top. Fd eating over.

annabell22 · 24/06/2020 18:59

Envy not envy

Beautiful3 · 24/06/2020 19:14

Thanks MazDazzle.

Beautiful3 · 24/06/2020 19:28

I did quite badly today (my 2nd fast day) at 970. I'm premenstrual so ate a big portion of pasta and some chocolate! I will have another go either tomorrow or Friday.

DietChic · 24/06/2020 19:28

Kitchen closed on 534 - the heat has helped me not eat quite easily but I am thinking of ice cream tomorrow for sure!
Good resistance emcla!

morrisg1 · 24/06/2020 20:25

Hi. I have just joined mumsnet. I have started my 5:2 again this week. Just finishing day 2. I tend to have one 600kcal meal for dinner and I do my 2 days together to get it out the way. I did it 2 years ago and lost 2st over 4 months so I’m hoping to do it again this time. I’m hoping you will all inspire me too -) someone wrote about diarrhoea and by day 2 I often have it- putting it down to the endless black coffee. I feel full of energy on my fast days.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 20:53

Well done, emcla, Chic

Don't worry, Beaut You just changed your FD to a miniFD today
If you can do a good sub-TDEE day (say 500 cals below, no junk, no alcohol) on Friday or Saturday,
then you've got this week sorted, no need for another FD

Welcome, morrisg1 🙂
and well done on your b2b

You did really well last time, so you know this WOL works for you.
When you reach goal, almost everyone needs a defined maintenance plan - we have several options for this later.

One meal on an FD works very well for some folk, but not for others with more sensitive guts.
So if you often experience FD diarrhoea, it is probably due to suddenly having a 600 cal meal on an empty stomach

  • especially if you also drink a lot of black coffee !

To avoid this, I suggest you try splitting your calories into 2 meals, especially as you can have 650 cals on a b2b
So e.g. have a 250 cal chicken & veg soup for lunch, then a 400 cal supper

Also, try to limit yourself to 2 coffees per day - which can also help your BP

OP posts:
DietChic · 24/06/2020 20:54

beautiful3 - I sometimes crack and eat way over my FD calories and found it easier to leave it (you’re essentially at a mini FD calorie level
anyway) a day, rather than have tortured myself most of the original FD, caved, been angry at myself and then started again the next day still grumpy and hungrier than normal. I just have a normal eating day and then if it works socially I have either another mini - or the real FD.

First time I ever fell off the wagon totally with 5:2 which I did years ago, was because I kept “failing and immediately trying to rectify the 500 cal days and it backfired! I just decided I would either calorie count / low carb / insert more restrictive eating pattern that doesn’t make you do 2 days at 500 cals and fell off those wagons too.

In short! Doesn’t matter if today was a mini!

emcla · 24/06/2020 21:26

Welcome Morris. There is great support on this thread.

MadauntofA · 24/06/2020 21:48

Well done all of today's fasters!

CharityRoyall · 24/06/2020 21:56

Jumping onboard! I’ve got a lot of weight to lose (am currently around 21st, 5”11...would like to be about 12st). Third week of 5:2 and I’m 8lbs down. Fast day today (560 cals), find it easier not to eat until about 3pm, which is when I start to feel a bit shaky. Heading to bed soon as can feel myself getting hungry! It’s definitely getting easier though. Good tips on here about also watching calories on your non fast days, that makes sense!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 22:46

Welcome, Charity 🙂
and well done on your SV
Good start, sounds like you are adapting well to fasting

How was your NFD, MadAunt ?

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 24/06/2020 23:06

Great thanks Bigchoc - bbq chicken with salad this evening in the sun, and had to have a small piece of carrot cake my DD made. I'm not usually that bothered with sweets, but do love dark chocolate. I have been c tired today, think it is the heat, but was flagging at 9 - usually only get that on FD.
How does everyone sleep after FD? I find I wake early but then aren't that hungry for breakfast

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 23:13

Sounds a good day, MadAunt

Choc with 70% cocoa or more is healthy in small amounts, because of the cocoa's antioxidants and tends not to be so moreish as milk choc.
I weaned myself onto 85% or even 92%, an acquired taste but has only a little sugar

The heat here is exhausting too, >30C but a glorious sunny day
I did 2 evening gym classes, spin and lifting, in a gym without air con - all the sweaty bodies must have raised the room temp several °C

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 24/06/2020 23:37

I'm seriously impressed.You must have some serious willpower when you were waiting for your 2nd to start in a hot sweaty room. I think I'd have been tempted to run outside after the 1st!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2020 00:06

The classes are in 2 different rooms
Besides, you don't notice how humid it is until the class ends and the door opens

Anyway, I'm a gym rat - I can cope with most things to get my gym fix

Night all

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 25/06/2020 07:15

Morning all,

FD here today. Hope I manage ok in the heat! Shattered as I hardly slept last night due to the heat! Yesterday's NFD was a bit wild, had a chocolate brioche and a halloumi fried egg roll for breakfast and then a chicken mayo sandwich for dinner. Plus an icecream, a cornetto, 2 cans of coke and 2 x100cal sweets. We had a friend over in the garden and ate mindlessly 😳