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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MadauntofA · 22/06/2020 12:09

I'm joining you today Chic. Just bought a lovely herbal tea so looking forward to that - 10yrs ago would never have thought I'd say thatGrin

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2020 13:25

Good luck, madAunt
Herbal tea can be delicious and a satisfying break on an FD
I discovered I liked them on 5:2 - I enjoy hibiscus / mint / ginger & lemon

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 22/06/2020 13:59

Good luck Monday fasters! I'm fasting today too! Just had lunch and really looking forward to my favourite dinner (which is homemade chicken & veg soup)!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2020 14:13

Good luck, Beaut
Soup sounds yum

Glorious sunshine here again - it's been a lovely summer
I had a Rhine walk and Bodystyling class this morning and will do spin this evening

OP posts:
Vgtasd · 22/06/2020 18:27

2nd fast day, finishing on 580 cals, pleased with that! Weigh in on Thursday 🙈

DietChic · 22/06/2020 19:02

Thanks BCF - luck received and all done here - my chicken was a bit weird so have binned and had some cheese instead. 549 calories.

How are my fellow Monday fasters Madauntand Beautiful3? Good work Vgtasd - so good to get 2nd FD out of the way on a Monday!

Just have the last inch of water to get through and I really am done.

Next FD is Weds. Would prefer Thursday but have a lunch planned.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2020 19:39

Well done on good FDs, Vgtasd, chic

You could leave weighing for a few weeks if it worries you, Vgtasd
No stress - do this WOL your way

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 22/06/2020 19:40

Waves

I never managed my second fd last week - Dh and I were both on annual leave and I felt quite run down. But then I went and sabotaged myself and had 4 bad days.

FD today to redeem myself. Always find the first FD after falling off the wagon difficult but I'm about to brush my teeth. Stay strong!

inthethickofit19 · 22/06/2020 19:43

Also I've mentioned before and BCF you are right as always. My fibromyalgia flares badly around day 20/21 of my cycle and that's exactly the FD that I end up skipping each month. I try to fit it in but somehow manage to miss that FD aswell as another few! So I've taken your advice to just move on from it now. Don't attempt to make it up and just get back on the wagon ASAP

MadauntofA · 22/06/2020 19:43

Good going fellow fasters! Finished today at 520, and feeling good. Usually do Mon and Thurs but giving blood on Thursday so I need to eat. Meal planned on Wednesday, so looks like it will be Friday for my 2nd FD - not ideal!!

MadauntofA · 22/06/2020 19:46

Maybe plan to only fast once that week inthethickofit if your body needs it, then you don't feel like you are failing that week?

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2020 20:27

That's fine, inthethick
That week you could try the 3 miniFDs next month, or just make FD2 a MiniFD

Well done, MadAunt
and on donating blood 💐
Yes, always move an FD or mini that clashes with a date for blood donation - don't fast that day.

OP posts:
Upsidedownrightnow · 22/06/2020 21:35

@NathanNathan - I think lockdown has just gone on too long now hasn't it, I hope you have a better week this week xx

@BigChocFrenzy - I have been smoking a little in lockdown which i'm not proud of but I am going to go easy on myself while studying and then tackle one problem at a time after that. I am often very hard on myself and I put alot of pressure on to do too many things as once.

this is what lead me to feel so upset yesterday and I spent most of the day crying. but today my dd was back at school and I studied for the whole day (apart from a short walk) so I feel like i am making progress, and no crying today Grin

I usually only drink about once per week but it send me off track with eating well and exercising so I have decided not to drink until I am closer to my goal weight.

I did my mini fd today and it was much better Smile i had a stirfry with quorn for dinner which was yummy.

What seasoning do you guys use for stir fry? I used thai paste and a little coconut oil and it was tasty.

@MadauntofA - hmm not sure if we are sad Grin I also get abit excited about my mint tea as it really is yummy.

Syncope · 22/06/2020 21:53

Hello all - well done to all the fasters today! I've finished today on 494 calories; got out of work late so have only just had dinner.
Had a lovely mushroom, cheese and parsley omelette which I really enjoyed. Had to work hard to resist all the cake and biscuits at work today, though!

@Upsidedownrightnow sorry you're having a tough time at the moment. Sounds like you've got a lot on your plate so well done on your mini FD. I like a black bean paste for a stir fry. Smile

Quackersandcheese3 · 22/06/2020 22:47

This is my second week of the fasting diet. Still early days, had super nutritious food today in prep for my fast day tomo. Got my meals and snack prepped and ready to go.

Beautiful3 · 22/06/2020 23:13

Kitchen closed at 500 exactly!! Very happy!

Beautiful3 · 22/06/2020 23:15

Well done @DietChic and all Monday fasters. I'm fasting on Wednesday too!

emcla · 22/06/2020 23:19

Hi all. Back after a dodgy tum last week. Just bad pains and no energy or appetite. Dh had the same thing. Appetite back to normal. Craved sugar today. And gave in 😡
Attempting a b2b tomorrow as I am off work Thursday and Friday and the weekend so fasting not an option. I find it much easier at work. Hope everyone else is doing well. Must catch up on the news here ! Big wave to everyone 👋

inthethickofit19 · 23/06/2020 07:35

Trying not to be disheartened, I was 9st 6.3 on Wednesday and 9st 8.9 today after yesterday's fast.

Day 25 of my cycle so maybe due to TOTM (and also my 4 off-the-rail days)

BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 09:22

Well done, Beaut

Good luck today, emcla
That's good your family's tum has recovered

Good luck on your 2nd week, Quackers
You sound very organised and positive

In thethick I always recommend
.... never weigh during totm

The hormonal changes cause most women to temporarily retain a few lb of water; sometimes several lb
(keep drinking water though, or your body may retain even more)

So the scales have no point and the blips can be very discouraging
The first FD after the end of totm should release the water
So step away from scales until the following NFD

Upside As I prioritise health, pesonally I would forget trying to lose weight when you have so much other stress and smoking has crept in again.

I would just aim for sts and focus mostly on stopping smoking

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 09:25

Tackle one issue at a time, the most important first
Nail that, then moe onto the next priority

Very difficult to try to solve everything at once, especially at a time when you are feeling stressed nyway

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 23/06/2020 09:28

Morning all, I'm on the first FD of the week and so far doing ok.

I think some of the weight gain was due to the fact I had TOTM for the first time in about 7 months. Normally my contraception stops it completely. Either way, I have had three good non FDs and I'm building a patio so have done lots of exercise and am knackered!!

NathanNathan · 23/06/2020 09:44

@Upsidedownrightnow a couple of days off work helped. I am very similar to you in that I try to do everything at once. Sometimes I get into a good momentum, but as soon as one thing goes off track it can be hard to keep others going.

BigChoc is a fountain of wisdom, and is I'm sure right about focus on health. Apparently stress can stop weight loss, so it's worth trying to get under control.

On a lighter note, for stirfrys I just do soy sauce as a sauce, with an egg in them too sometimes, but coconut oil and Thai paste sounds yum!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 10:13

Well done on the exercise and the sensible NFDs, moonlight
I recommend you too just weigh after totm, the NFD morning after your 1st FD following the end

FD stirfries:
the one-cal spray is useful here
then I add salt, pepper, chopped garlic, ginger and unsweetened soy sauce

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 23/06/2020 10:35

morning everyone, well done to all the monday fasters Grin

FD here today, went a bit OTT over the weekend, think the 4lb loss fooled me into a bit of a carefree attitude, plus is was fathers day so had cake and takeaway - I know, I know!!!

Think I'm going to do today and friday again... No idea what to eat yet, will see what the fridge offers at lunch time (but probably eggs or soup)

Have a good day everyone Smile