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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
inthethickofit19 · 20/07/2020 20:14

@BigChocFrenzy

Congratulations on your SV; MissFliss Halfway is a really encouraging milestone

Sorry to hear you have a stomach lurgie, inthethick
We've learned from experience on these threads with such bugs that fasters need to wait at least 5 days after symptoms have gone
This is because the gut is still recovering and a premature return to fasting, especially with just a single FD supper, can cause symptoms to return

"I'm not doing well with the core exercises you recommended"

Are they difficult to understand, or to get round to doing them, or too hard to do ?
Yes, printing off might help
You start with literally 2 minutes per day, then increase gradually as you feel ready

If you would like to start on some gentle weight-lifting too, I'll dig out some basic videos

Thanks BCF. No not difficult to understand, just a faff Checking my phone as the kids want to grab it etc so print out will be easier. I also don't enjoy them as much but I know I have to do them Blush
BigChocFrenzy · 20/07/2020 20:15

30C here
I'm just back from spin class - phew, it was like a sauna !

How are the Monday fasters doing ?

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 20/07/2020 20:16

@BigChocFrenzy

inthethick I don't have beginner lifting routines, but I have simple videos showing lifts to work each of the main muscle groups, which I can post here if you wish ?
Please!
inthethickofit19 · 20/07/2020 20:16

@BigChocFrenzy

inthethick I don't have beginner lifting routines, but I have simple videos showing lifts to work each of the main muscle groups, which I can post here if you wish ?
Please!
BigChocFrenzy · 20/07/2020 20:18

re printing it out, inthethick
I checked what I posted then and it includes links to 2 videos

When learning how to do exercises, videos are much easier than text and even pictures
Maybe when the kids are otherwise occupied, or in bed, you can take some me-time - you matter !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/07/2020 20:25

Beginning lifts

For inthethick or anyone else who wants to try
You can do any of these using dumbbells or small bottles of water etc, whatever fits your hand

I suggest starting with 3-5 reps (repeats) of each, whatever you can, then building up to 8,
then 10, then gradually do sets of 8 or 10 - but that takes weeks

Beginner Press ups

Bench Press
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/DBBenchPress Dumbbell

Dumbbell Fly
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/DBFly

Shoulder press
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBShoulderPress

Front raise
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBFrontRaise

Side raise
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBLateralRaise

Triceps
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/DBOneArmTriExtBench

Deadlift Straight leg
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/DBStraightLegDeadlift

Bent-Over Row
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/DBBentOverRow.html

Squats - bodyweight only

Lunges - bodyweight only

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/07/2020 20:27

Beginning lifts

For inthethick or anyone else who wants to try

You can do any of these using dumbbells or small bottles of water etc, whatever fits your hand

I suggest starting with 3-5 reps (repeats) of each, whatever you can, then building up to 8,
then 10, then gradually do sets of 8 or 10 - but that takes weeks

Beginner Pushups

Bench Press
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/DBBenchPress Dumbbell

Dumbbell Fly
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/DBFly

Shoulder press
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBShoulderPress

Front raise
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBFrontRaise

Side raise
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBLateralRaise

Triceps
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/DBOneArmTriExtBench

Deadlift Straight leg
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/DBStraightLegDeadlift

Bent-Over Row
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/DBBentOverRow.html

Squats - bodyweight

Lunges - bodyweight

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/07/2020 20:28

Sorry for double post !

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 20/07/2020 20:54

I'm done here at 490. Made my soaked oats for breakfast tomorrow.
Thanks for the weights guide Bigchoc - I have weights and vaguely do some exercises, but good to have some more for a better routine.

Beautiful3 · 20/07/2020 21:33

Well done MadauntofA! My kitchens closed at 539.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/07/2020 22:00

Well done on good FDs, madAunt, Beaut

OP posts:
annabell22 · 21/07/2020 06:58

Morning all! Back from my staycation and today is a FD. A small gain of 400g, I'm ok with that after four days of hotel food and hopefully today's FD will make a dent in that.

moonlight1705 · 21/07/2020 08:49

Morning all, sorry to have dropped off the thread for a few weeks.

I really needed to take a break and get my head back into gear as I was faffing around with my FDs and not doing it properly which is why nothing was happening. I have not thought about food or weighed for three weeks until today. I have put on 1.2kg so not awful but still would like it gone again.

I hope I am now back in a good mental space and off to start my first FD in ages. Tea is at hand along with my jar of marmite for later Smile

Hope you are all well, not sure I can catch up with everything so will start again from now.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/07/2020 10:30

You did well, annabell
FDs should soon zap that small blip - a good dump often helps too Wink
so keep drinking water to help this

Good luck on your FD

Welcome back, moonlight
and good luck on your FD too

That regain is small for 3 weeks;
stay focused this week and you can be right back on the loss track

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 21/07/2020 14:59

Day 1 of b2b FD. Final push before we head off on Thursday!

Anyone else fasting today?

Booq · 21/07/2020 17:17

A quick question if I may BigChoc on three meals a day, as I do 16:8(ish) can I ask if the below times are ok?

1pm meal 1
4pm meal 2
7pm meal 3

Does this give enough time in between that I'm getting the top frequent insulin spikes?

Booq · 21/07/2020 17:17

Too not too!

Booq · 21/07/2020 17:18

Too not top!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/07/2020 17:37

Booq That would be OK, but better would be using the full 8-hour eating window, to give 4 hrs between
11 am
3 pm
7 pm

In fact, many women do better - feel less hunger & stress - on 14:10
i.e. a 10-hour window
So you can relax more about the time, if that helps you

Good luck, Maz
one last heave ! Grin

OP posts:
Booq · 21/07/2020 18:34

Sounds good, I'll give it a try!

Beautiful3 · 21/07/2020 18:45

Second fast closed, at 504 today. Today's been a good day. Well done Tuesday fasters.

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 21/07/2020 18:45

Thanks for the videos, BigChoc. It's a complete mystery to me how anyone ever manages to do push-ups. I've never been able to do more than 2 in a row.

I'm a bit late checking in MadDazzle but it's a FD today for me too. Hope it's gone well for you. I've spent most of the day hanging new curtains so not had much time to think about food. Always a bonus!

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 21/07/2020 18:47

Thanks and well done to you too, Beautiful.

missfliss · 21/07/2020 18:58

I'm at the end of my Tuesday fast. Not the best - have PMT and not enough sleep the past two nights :-( feeling a bit fed up to be honest and having to fight the urge to sink a tub of Ben and Jerry's

BigChocFrenzy · 21/07/2020 19:09

Well done on your FD, Beaut, Macavity
Well done especially on resisting B&J with PMT, MissFliss

Macavity I can do quite a few sets of full pressups, i.e. just hands and toes on the floor

One Christmas hols, after I got to the gym and found my class had been cancelled, I did 800 Grin

  • admittedly in sets of 10 and taking my time
It was my aching tum, from holding my core rigid, not my shoulders, that made me stop

You've reminded me that I must get back to doing pressups - they are no longer done in lifting class, for some reason

OP posts: