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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Beautiful3 · 15/07/2020 21:03

Didn't feel very hungry today and have been busy, so today's been a third fast day at 600 calories. This means the rest of the weeks my own now. Hooray! Think all this fasting is shrinking my stomach? Well done Wednesday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/07/2020 22:57

Well done, beaut
You can check if your waist has shrunk by measuring, or trying on something that used to be tight

That's very useful if the results don't stress you, madAunt
Daily or weekly weighing is also a part of our recommended maintenance plan after goal, when the scales are less likely to be stressful

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 16/07/2020 06:57

Thanks BCF. Weighing daily really worked for me before but I think I'll try your suggestion of either weighing weekly or 4 weekly.

Fizzysours · 16/07/2020 06:59

Hellllllllllppppp lovely people....On week 3 of 5:2 and generally finding fast days kind of ok. But.....my sleep on a fast day night is TERRIBLE!!
At the mo, I have a white coffee and an apple at 6am. Black tea and coffee, caffiene free, for the day. Then at 5pm, salad with either chicken / tuna. Would I be better off eating later? Or having a tiny carbs portion, still keeping to 400 cal? I love my sleep!! Any ideas, anyone else struggle to sleep on FD?

robertsmithscorpsebride · 16/07/2020 08:16

Well done weds fasters 😁

Oh no fizzy that's rubbish, I dont really have much advice, maybe more protein to keep you fuller, nice hot bath and a camomile tea? Hope it settles down soon

Fd today, then a busy weekend with dad, will do my best but this weekend might be difficult!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/07/2020 08:59

Good luck, Robert and any other Thursday fasters

Fizzy Fasting does tend to make you more alert and there are fewer starchy carbs on an FD,
which means some people have poor sleep until their body has got used to fasting

What helps sleep

(Some of this you are already doing Smile but the points may help others)

  • Cut out energy drinks completely on FDs
  • No caffeine - coffee, coke etc - after 3 pm
  • Stop exercise at least 3 hrs before bed, other than a short gentle walk
  • Stop screens - phone, tablet, TV, gaming etc - at least 1 hr before bed
  • IF you are able to save all / most of your 500 cals for supper, that avoids late hunger and can help sleep
  • Have FD supper about 2-3 hours before bed, so your tum has some food, but is not too full (on an NFD, supper should ideally be earlier, as the meal will likely be larger)
  • Increase starchy carbs portion of your supper - but no carby/ sweet junk
  • Do not have a late night fruit or other sweet snack
OP posts:
Fizzysours · 16/07/2020 09:42

Ahh thank you so much.... I will try all that :)

Ciderandskatesdontmix · 16/07/2020 09:59

Fd for me today... definitely not helping my foul mood. I think totm is on the horizon. Today is one of those days when I could quite happily sack the whole thing off and stuff myself with junk. Sigh... only a few more hours until lunch.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 16/07/2020 10:21

stay strong cider Smile I'm like you with TOTM, it sucks doesn't it but you can do this FD. If you are really struggling can you just have a healthy NFD and plan your FD for another day when your hormones aren't scuppering things?

missfliss · 16/07/2020 10:59

Hello Thursday fasters.

I'm tired. And bloody hungry!

Determined though.

I won't eat till later today - probably save all my calories for 5 ish and a good dinner

missfliss · 16/07/2020 10:59

Hello Thursday fasters.

I'm tired. And bloody hungry!

Determined though.

I won't eat till later today - probably save all my calories for 5 ish and a good dinner

BigChocFrenzy · 16/07/2020 11:35

Good luck, cider, MissFliss
Try some hot Bovril ?

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 16/07/2020 16:50

I've just baked ds's favourite chocolate cake for when granddad arrives tomorrow, it wasnt as hard as I thought baking on a fd.... until the cale smell started to fill the house 😲😋 I can have a piece tomorrow....

How is everyone else getting on?

Planning a nicoise (sp) salad for tea, minus potatoes and lovely dressing (so not a nicoise but tuna steak, green beans, boiled egg, olives and leaves). I have found a lowish cal balsamic glaze so will have a drizzle of that instead. Hungry now but holding out for another hour or so 😁

robertsmithscorpsebride · 16/07/2020 16:51

'Cake'

missfliss · 16/07/2020 17:25

I succumbed to dinner at 4:30pm! But it's ok. It was 22 hours since last ate so that's good going really.

Had a chicken breast grilled with rice, feta, beetroot and spinach salad

BigChocFrenzy · 16/07/2020 21:47

Well done, Robert, MissFliss

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 17/07/2020 07:46

Forgot to say fd finished on 527cals

Weigh in today and only 0.5lb off, still 10.5lbs in 3 weeks so I shuldn't grumble....

Need to be careful with visitors this weekend

annabell22 · 17/07/2020 08:22

WTG @robertsmithscorpsebride

Another daily weigher here, as some of you will have noticed due to my recent stall, but I was finally 200g down yesterday and have maintained that today despite a pool day with my friend. Heading off for a staycation shortly as it's DH's birthday today, so no scales for me until Tuesday morning! If I can maintain or close to it I'll be happy, I will be in the gym daily.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/07/2020 10:13

Well done on your FD and SV, Robert
That's decent progress

Enjoy your staycation, Annabell
and Happy Birthday to MrAnnabell

I'm having a miniFD
Anyone else fasting today ?

I'm at the gym, just finished a back, abs & flexibility class
I'll lift weights for 15 minutes, then I'm off for a Rhine walk - such a lovely sunny day I can't stay indoors long

OP posts:
MacavityTheDentistsCat · 17/07/2020 12:30

Enjoy your miniFD, BC. No fasting for me today - I did Tuesday and yesterday and am visiting a friend tonight (which will likely involve much food and wine Blush).

My scales, unfortunately, have refused to budge below 60kg - I was a whisper above at 60.1kg this morning. Still, delaying gratification is supposedly good for you so I'll regroup and look forward to breaking through the 60kg barrier next week instead. At least I feel a bit less weighty already.

MadauntofA · 17/07/2020 16:23

Hope everyone is managing their FDs and minis. Definitely no FD here, though I did skip breakfast. Our wedding anniversary, so lovely meal and fizz planned for later!

inthethickofit19 · 17/07/2020 19:43

This week:
FD on Thursday
1100 calories today so semi Mini

Aim for another (better) mini tomorrow

MazDazzle · 17/07/2020 20:03

Happy anniversary Mad! Enjoy your meal and fizz.

Enjoy your night Macavity! Catching up with friends scuppered my FD plans yesterday. I was just finishing my FD meal when my friend invited me round to her garden for drinks since it was such a lovely night, so I binned the FD.

It did mean that I had to fast all over again today though. Just finished my FD dinner of lentil soup and ham salad. Some tidying and an early night for me!

Well done to everyone else who fasted today.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/07/2020 21:09

Happy anniversary, MadAunt 💐

Well done on your FD, maz
I've finished my miniFD

You'll get there, macavity
Progress slows nearer goal, but patience & persistence will win out

That's a decent couple of days, inthethick with your new system
Good luck tomorrow, then you can chill on Sunday

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 18/07/2020 09:37

Happy Saturday all! Pouring with rain here, so having a day of sorting the house with healthy NFD food. Any fasters today?