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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
robertsmithscorpsebride · 14/07/2020 19:38

Well done miss and bonus fd beautiful
Ha ha miss I know that feeling all too well 🤣🤣

Fd finished here on 503...

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 14/07/2020 19:51

Absolutely missfliss Grin.

Fast day for me too today. Kitchen closing at 0 calories: I have to do my FDs as water fasts because I simply cannot 'only' eat 500 or so calories. Once I've started eating I'll keep going so I find it easier to do without food entirely.

I'm really hoping to achieve a weigh-in figure below 60kg by the end of the week. That's still quite a lot for my height but logging a figure in the 50s rather than the 60s may finally help me feel that I'm getting somewhere. Fingers crossed.

inthethickofit19 · 14/07/2020 21:12

BCF I have considered it but my rate of loss will be even slower as my tdee is 1550, 2 fasts leave a deficit of 2000 so theoretically the max I can lose in a week is only 0.66 of a lb. And that's if I stick to two fasts and behave.

If I swap to 3 mini FD's (1000cals right?) then deficit will only be 1500 so half a lb a week. Seems so discouraging.

Saying all that I've noticed I always flag around the time I ovulate and my fibromyalgia symptoms really flare as I approach TOTM, I'm extra sore and ravenous and it all just spirals. So that's pretty much 2weeks + written off.

I have some Evening primrose oil to help with the hormones but struggling to remember to take them at the moment.

I've done this before and I should be able to do it again!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/07/2020 22:02

Well done, missFliss
< peers over iPad > You're looking good !

A serendipitous FD, beaut
Well taken

Well done Robert - exact to 3 calories ! -
and Macavity too - good luck with your goal; stay patient and you'll get there

inthethick You know you can do this,
step by step, just like improving your fitness

If your TDEE is 1550, you are presumably within or near healthy BMI
So weight loss will be slower than average

Just choose whichever WOE variant will be sustainable for you
⅔ or ½ lb per week is fine and mounts up over the weeks
It will get you there at your own gentle pace

OP posts:
annabell22 · 15/07/2020 05:08

Sunday - FD and 6.5km run, 15k steps

Monday- mini FD 800 and 5.5km run, 12k steps

Tuesday- FD, 10k steps

Wednesday- weigh exactly the same as Sunday morning Angry

Someone pass me a doughnut, please! I'll be on the sofa.

MadauntofA · 15/07/2020 07:26

Keep on it annabelle you must be due a whoosh soon! Weight loss isn't always linear, and health isn't always proportional to loss.
I've only lost 3kg out of the 10 I want to lose in the month I have been doing this, but I've lost 2.5 inches from my waist, and my muffin top is almost gone, so that is spurring me on no matter how slow the loss.

MadauntofA · 15/07/2020 07:26

FD here for me, who is joining me?

DietChic · 15/07/2020 07:55

BCF - maltitol is the Devil! I once tried some of the sugar free marshmallows from Sainsbury’s before a train ride to Scotland. I couldn’t understand what was wrong with me. Could have got there on my own steam without the train at all!

NFD today as yet more socialising sprung in me by forgetful DH - tomorrow though!

inthethickofit19 · 15/07/2020 08:09

@BigChocFrenzy

Well done, missFliss < peers over iPad > You're looking good !

A serendipitous FD, beaut
Well taken

Well done Robert - exact to 3 calories ! -
and Macavity too - good luck with your goal; stay patient and you'll get there

inthethick You know you can do this,
step by step, just like improving your fitness

If your TDEE is 1550, you are presumably within or near healthy BMI
So weight loss will be slower than average

Just choose whichever WOE variant will be sustainable for you
⅔ or ½ lb per week is fine and mounts up over the weeks
It will get you there at your own gentle pace

BmI is 24. But as you saw in my tummy photos I carry a lot of excess weight there. I think I also need to cut down on bad carbs/ junk.

On a positive note I'm up to 7.5 mins on the bike now.

Day 18 of my cycle and I'm NOT going to weigh until After TOTM. Last month I got the bloat around day 21 leading up to my cycle and I found that very off putting.

I might try and keep a rough note of my calorie intake over a week to keep me on track instead and I will definitely try out the 3 mini's. Perhaps I could do 1 FD and 2 mini's. Will play around and see how it goes

Thanks for all your support

annabell22 · 15/07/2020 09:43

I can't even blame TOTM as that's all behind me!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/07/2020 10:06

Stay focused, annabelle and eventually you'll get a whoosh
Some people lose in fits & starts

If you are post-meno, your body will hang on to its fat like a limpet until it gives in
However, many of us post-meno have found 5:2 works - even though more slowly - when other methods don't work at all

What helps is to add Mosely's Fat Blasts of 2-5 minutes concentrated HIIT on 3-5 days per week, see 5:2-IF Exercise Thread #3 OP
Mosely showed how that often helps sort out issues of insulin metabolism

Well done on your waist NSV, MadAunt
That's more important than scales for shape & health
Good luck on your FD

Yes, inthethick I recommend one week on mfp, rather than guestimates,
as we are good at kidding ourselves !

Being within healthy BMI, you have less leeway than someone with more to lose
You might have hidden calorie bombs, need to adjust portion size of some things etc

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 15/07/2020 11:25

gah that is frustrating annabell but you are so due a whoosh

ha ha bigchoc I have become slightly obsessed with weighing and tracking everything on MFP - not sure this is sustainable but I like the feeling of control it gives me :)

mad that's a great inches lost, fantastic. I'm classic apple shape and I love how 5:2 makes me feel trimmer around the middle. Also because DH started it with me we HAD to purchase a super duper scale that measured everything, not just weight. Now I'm not convinced how reliable these things are, but I was surprised (and relieved) that my visceral fat was acceptable (compared to DH who was high) given that I carry most of my weight around the middle Grin

Not broken my fast yet, but trying to think of something delicious for lunch that isn't soup..... I might treat myself to some cheese Smile

MazDazzle · 15/07/2020 11:40

Hopped on the scales this morning and I’m down another 0.8lbs.

Looking at my pattern over the last couple of months:

  • I lost a stone in 3 weeks (which I had piled on at the start of lockdown)
  • I lost 1 lb in the next 4 weeks
  • this week I’ve lost 3 lbs!

You are surely due a whoosh soon too annabell.

It’s all because of yesterday’s HIIT, I’m convinced. That and the lack of alcohol, chocolate, snacking and bread...

BigChocFrenzy · 15/07/2020 12:17

Congratulations on your SV, maz
A classic example of losing in fits & starts - but you persisted and are heading to goal

iirc, you wanted a bit of a boost as you have a special event with your OH soon ?

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 15/07/2020 17:31

That’s right BC. Only one week to go. Hoping the scales go down again before then!

missfliss · 15/07/2020 18:20

gearing up for a fast day tomorrow. Have beetroot and feta planned for tomorrows dinner- i could have sworn i saw a delicious recipe for beetroot feta salad somewhere on a 500 cal plan - can i find it now? no!

MadauntofA · 15/07/2020 18:54

That's great progress Max! I'm done here - just under 500. Had a cup of bovril at lunch then left all my calories for a lovely dinner so now I am nicely full.
I can definitely empathise with the (peri) menopausal limpet nature of fat - I hit 40 and suddenly my body started preparing for a hibernation layer of fat!!

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 15/07/2020 19:06

May I ask how often do you all weigh yourselves? I am weighing myself everyday in the morning but am beginning to wonder if that's usual (or recommended). I find it less stressy than, say, weekly weighing though because it has made me realise that my weight naturally varies quite a lot and that it's not worth getting too worked up by an 'outlying' figure providing that the general trend is downwards.

MazDazzle · 15/07/2020 19:48

I weigh myself daily, but I don’t mind the fluctuations. I find them interesting. Also, weighing everyday keeps me in check. When I don’t step on the scales for months, it usually means I’m hiding from them!

inthethickofit19 · 15/07/2020 20:21

FD done 🥳 in bed now for early night x

inthethickofit19 · 15/07/2020 20:21

FD done 🥳 in bed now for early night x

inthethickofit19 · 15/07/2020 20:25

Also weigh myself daily usually but I'm thinking of weighing less regularly to see if that works better for me. Going to avoid weighing in the week leading up to TOTM as that's when I seem to get the bloat plus the week of TOTM so that's two weeks of no weighing there.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/07/2020 20:30

Well done on your FD, MadAunt
I enjoy one glorious benefit of being post-meno: no more totm !

Well done too, Inthethick
and sleep tight

MissFliss Try this ?
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/feta-beetroot-salad

Macavity Weighing frequency is personal choice, whatever suits you:

Some who get stressed by scales weight every 4-6 weeks;
others weigh daily, like maz to keep an eye on themselves Grin
Many weigh weekly 1st thing in the morning after FD2

Also, you can take waist & hip measurements, to monitor inches loss

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/07/2020 20:31

You might feel less under pressure if you weigh every 4 weeks, inthethick

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 15/07/2020 20:59

I also weigh most days - I find it keeps me on track on NFDs. I don't get stressed if I go up, just find it interesting. I don't have true TOTMs so no mad fluctuations

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