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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MadauntofA · 12/07/2020 11:16

Sounds nasty Robert. Hopefully better today? Lovely day here so sat in the sun- bbq last night, but didn't go too mad! How's everyone else doing?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2020 12:06

MadAunt I jogged to morning spin class & back, fasted with just coffee as always

I've just finished a delic brunch at the Rhine cafe, followed by a leisurely waddle amble by the river
Now I'm sitting in the sun too, in my lounge watching the boats go by.

I'll have a longer walk this afternoon

I hope all 5:2ers are relaxing & enjoying the Sunday sun Smile

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group
OP posts:
MadauntofA · 12/07/2020 12:49

Looks like a beautiful day there too Bigchoc!

robertsmithscorpsebride · 12/07/2020 19:33

That view is beautiful bigchoc

annabell22 · 12/07/2020 19:46

Amazing result @Robert

First FD of the week done for me, ran 6.5km this morning then walked a bit so if you believe MFP I've burned off more calories than I've eaten!

YeetYeet · 12/07/2020 20:33

Hello all, I was on the thread briefly but dipped out as I am not doing 5:2. Just popping up again to post an article I have just read - thought it might be interesting and useful for those counting calories, apologies if it's common knowledge!

www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-reveals-why-calorie-counts-are-all-wrong/

Badabingbadabum · 12/07/2020 20:50

FD for me. Coffee and water, turned down repeated offers of snacks when visiting dm, had a couple of broccoli florets when dc ate there dinner as was going to eat a little portion of dinner later with dh. Then we had a swarm of flying ants in the house. Luckily we had some ant traps and a safe when dry spray on lacquer. I think the nest must be in the wall as they are crawling out from a gap in the window sill.

Its my totm, I weighed myself and it was shocking (have convinced myself that half a stone must surely be water retention) there are ants all over our front window, I'm struggling with my depression and I really want a large portion of dinner and one of the beers in the fridge. Maybe a cookie.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2020 21:44

Well done on your Sunday FD and run, Annabell

Stay strong, bada, not long to go
Clean your teeth to help avoid temptation

Poor you with all those ants
Insects are the one thing I hate about summer

btw, I keep warning everyone:

Do NOT weigh during totm

Most women retain water temporarily, so the weight you see is usually a misleading blip
amd it can be v discouraging to some people.

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 13/07/2020 09:26

Hope You're feeling better now Robert. Beautiful view BigChoc! Well done on all your excerise. Thanks for the interesting read Yeet. I find counting calories really helps me rein it in. Since fasting, I actually struggle to est my allotted calories on nfds, so I just stop when I'm full up. I'm fasting today. Who's with me?

MazDazzle · 13/07/2020 09:49

Morning everyone!

FD for me. Good luck on your FD badabing and to anyone else on the fasting wagon by today!

After nearly 4 months my cleaner is coming back today! Hoping that between the two of us we can sort this shit tip of a house by out.

DietChic · 13/07/2020 10:18

I’m fasting today - looking forward to it! Will check in later.

MadauntofA · 13/07/2020 10:19

Morning, I'm joining the fasters today!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/07/2020 10:52

Good luck on your FD, Beaut, Maz, Chic, MadAunt and any other Monday fasters

Another hot day - keep drinking water !

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 13/07/2020 11:13

It's not hot here!! I'm sat working with a blanket on my knees and fleece on. I think I need a run around the block to warm upGrin

Ciderandskatesdontmix · 13/07/2020 11:47

Checking in for my FD today. I've learnt some valuable lessons so far on the importance of planning! I find it much easier to decide what I'll be eating the day before fasting... I don't make good choices when I'm hungry, I just want all the food!

emcla · 13/07/2020 11:56

I’m on a fd today. I’m considering changing to 3 small meals as I am getting very bad headaches This is repeatedly happening despite marmite and lots of water. Not so sure this is suitable for me. Open to suggestions....

robertsmithscorpsebride · 13/07/2020 13:57

thanks everyone Smile and I'm feeling much better now....

baba that sounds awful but hopefully you managed to kill all the ants and stay strong and nailed your fd. Yes, it will be TOTM weight blip, don't get disheartened.

enjoy the sunshine bigchoc as mad said, its not here, cold and grey (as per!) good luck to all the monday FD'ers

NFD for me today, fd planned for tues and thur this week as my dad will be visiting this weekend no that restrictions are lifting, yay, not seen him since 3rd Feb Sad

emcla what about three mini FDs (1000cals) instead of two FDs? Might stop the headaches?

BigChocFrenzy · 13/07/2020 15:01

Good luck too, cider, emcla

emcla You could move to 800 cal FDs and have 3 small meals,
or as robert suggests, keep th same rate of loss with 3 miniFDs (800-1000) cals

Make sure too that you have protein with each meal

cider One of the best FD tips is to plan out your menu in advance the day before

  • and stick to the plan

To any poor cold fasters, try a cup of hot Bovril (10 cals)

OP posts:
emcla · 13/07/2020 15:35

I’ll try that bigchoc and Robert

MinnieMinutiae · 13/07/2020 15:52

Hello darlings,

I'm now nearing the end of the 5:2 journey (week 11) and would very much appreciate your thoughts on something.

My past two menstruation cycles have been ever so very light. Is anyone else experiencing this side effect? I am still getting my usal headaches and cramps before my period begins.

Ta!

MazDazzle · 13/07/2020 16:03

It’s not something I’ve ever noticed Minnie. Could it be age related? My periods have definitely changed over the years.

That’s a long time Robert. Something to look forward to at the weekend though!

I’ve got the kids’ tea ready for later and I’m having a ham and egg salad.

Tried on a dress today that I know doesn’t fit. It never has, but it’s something to aim for! Managed to get it on and buttoned up, but it doesn’t sit right. I reckon 10lbs should do it.

Stick in fasters, we’re almost there! It’ll soon be dinner time. Grin

MinnieMinutiae · 13/07/2020 16:39

@MazDazzle

It’s not something I’ve ever noticed Minnie. Could it be age related? My periods have definitely changed over the years.

That’s a long time Robert. Something to look forward to at the weekend though!

I’ve got the kids’ tea ready for later and I’m having a ham and egg salad.

Tried on a dress today that I know doesn’t fit. It never has, but it’s something to aim for! Managed to get it on and buttoned up, but it doesn’t sit right. I reckon 10lbs should do it.

Stick in fasters, we’re almost there! It’ll soon be dinner time. Grin

Thank you, Maz. I am hoping it's not early menopause, I am only 32. Confused

Anyway, egg and ham salad sounds delicious, enjoy your dinner Halo

Beautiful3 · 13/07/2020 18:57

Well done Monday Monday fasters! Kitchen closed at 637. Not great!! But another fast day scheduled for Wednesday!

robertsmithscorpsebride · 13/07/2020 20:06

Fab clothes nsv maz it'll soon fit!

Well done Monday fasters 😁

It is a long time, not helped by fact we are in England and him Wales, needless to say ds is super excited too.

Successful nfd here, just planning tomorrows fd, I've rediscovered my love of cottage cheese (but only 1 brand, longley farm) so that might factor in somewhere.

DietChic · 13/07/2020 20:17

Today is a Mini after a friend dropped by unannounced with her toddler and some brownies. I can’t say I looked too pleased to see her or the brownies. Neither bode well for fasting.

I have plans for tomorrow and Weds so we’ll see what I can move around. It’s TOTM as well so am irrationally hungry and pissed off!