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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
inthethickofit19 · 10/07/2020 07:23

Fasting today!

inthethickofit19 · 10/07/2020 07:51

Actually i forgot dh is off work tonight so will fast tomorrow. And then back on Monday and Thursday next week

robertsmithscorpsebride · 10/07/2020 08:32

Morning all, I'm with you today beaut and bigchoc but unlike cat I've woken up with belly rumbling which never usually happens, no sign of TOTM overnight either Hmm

Have a good day everyone

Beautiful3 · 10/07/2020 11:20

Thanks @MacavityTheDentistsCat. Good luck @BigChocFrenzy and @robertsmithscorpsebride. I woke up hungry too. I'm starting to think that maybe I shouldn't have breakfast on nfd so its easier to manage on fds?! Never mind, we can do this. Looking forward to my fish cakes and salad for dinner!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/07/2020 12:11

Well done on nailing a tough FD, Macavity
I'm just back from the gym as well - back & abs - which was followed by a 10k steps Rhine walk

Good luck today, inthethick, beaut, robert
I'll have a miniFD today

Robert A cup of hot Bovril (10 cals) can often help a rumbling FD tum

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 10/07/2020 12:47

Thanks for the tip bigchoc I went food shopping and surprisingly it took my mind off it! Just having egg and tomatoe salad, no clue yet re dinner but maybe soup.

beautiful I rarely have breakfast as I find it tends to make me hungrier and I'll want more food by 11am whereas without breakfast I can happily go to 12 or 1pm without food (but copious cups of tea) 😁 try it and see if it works for you?

Your Rhine walks always sound so lovely bigchoc 😁

robertsmithscorpsebride · 10/07/2020 19:52

How's everyone doing? 516 finished here, looking forward to eating yummy stuff tomorrow!

Beautiful3 · 10/07/2020 20:09

Agree with you @robertsmithscorpsebride, well done on today's fast. My kitchen's closed now at 586. That's three fasts done this week. Done an hour on the bike too. I'm so glad im finally adapting to the fasts. I'm looking forward to the weekend! Hope you all have lovely weekend.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 11/07/2020 09:08

Morning everyone, very quiet on here isnt it?

Well despite TOTM curiosity got the better of me and I jumped on the scales, 1.8lb off, so happy with that, nearly 10lb in 2 weeks 😁

Braving the local pub today, looking forward to eating something I haven't cooked!

Have a great day everyone

Beautiful3 · 11/07/2020 09:42

Wow well done Robert! Very impressive weight loss. Enjoy your pub lunch today.

MadauntofA · 11/07/2020 10:24

Well done Robert! NFD here, trying to keep my fluid intake up. How's everyone else doing?

inthethickofit19 · 11/07/2020 11:35

@robertsmithscorpsebride that's excellent!!

FD here (postponed from Yesterday). Got to drink lots of water and aim to eat around my usual 4pm

BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 11:36

Well done on your FD, Robert, Beaut

Good luck today, inthethick
Do post if things get tough and you need moral support

Congratulations on your SV, Robert
Impressive with totm

  • but I recommend that those who would get discouraged by a temporary blip should avoid weighing during totm You are obviously well hard Grin
OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 11/07/2020 12:16

@BigChocFrenzy I don't know what's going on with me at the moment but I've woken with a headache. Went to bed far too late last night but dh has been working for a couple hours every evening during lockdown and only had a handful of evenings off. This should improve now as he has managed to get a couple of evenings off every week. Lockdown with a 3 and 1 year old has been rubbish and looking back at my weight loss I've only lost about 6/7lbs but that's better than sts or even worse, gaining Grin

Will see how I go today but may have a mini

BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 12:47

inthethick Headaches are a common symptom with lack of sleep
So, leave your OH to his night owl activities if you can

During lockdown, sts is the 1st goal and is a good achievement.
Losing, even slowly, is a definite win Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 12:48

Now that you (in UK) can do a lot more activities,
it is a good time to ramp up the focus onto your goals, especially weight

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 11/07/2020 14:11

Yes will definitely ramp up! I'm
In the shielding category so things are slowly getting better. I haven't been staying up for dh coming in but last night was one of the rare evenings off and so I did. We've hardly spent any time together with juggling childcare/ both working. I also did 7 mins on the bike yesterday (increasing it slowly) and added some lunges in, I was v v exhausted as it was so the late night was not a good idea.

I've had a nap with the 1 year old so feel better now Grin should manage my FD after all.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 11/07/2020 18:42

inthethick you've done bloody amazing if you've been shielding during lockdown with a 3 and 1 year old and managed to lose weight! Crikey Wink

Early pub tea was good although I practically ran the last few metres home as had diarrhoea belly 😲 not sure what I could have eaten to make that happen, but TOTM can play funny buggers on my tummy! Hey ho...

inthethickofit19 · 11/07/2020 19:47

@robertsmithscorpsebride

inthethick you've done bloody amazing if you've been shielding during lockdown with a 3 and 1 year old and managed to lose weight! Crikey Wink

Early pub tea was good although I practically ran the last few metres home as had diarrhoea belly 😲 not sure what I could have eaten to make that happen, but TOTM can play funny buggers on my tummy! Hey ho...

Thank you 😊 it's been hard hard work, they both had their birthdays during lockdown so are just over 3 and 1. Plus my mat leave ended and I started back wfh. Juggling childcare and working 😰 And a close family member was very very unwell with covid, 11 weeks in hospital with being ventilated multiple times so it has been an absolute rollercoaster.

Not to mention my tdee is only 1550 so I can only lose 2/3 lb a week theoretically.

I'll shut up now Grin and I decided to go easy on myself today and did a mini.

So this week has been 1 fast and 2 mini's. I did eat over on my nfd so just writing it off and will start again with a fast on Monday.

Hopefully shielding is paused at the end of July and nursery opens up so we can get back to some normality. Might see some friends for the first time tomorrow and I'm mega excited!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 22:07

Your sprinting ability came in handy there, Robert !
May not have been totm ..... I wonder if the pub staff washed their hands after the loo-

inthethick You are doing really well with fasting and exercise.
Just take it at your own pace - channel another MN mantra:
"It's a WOL, not a race"

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 11/07/2020 22:32

@BigChocFrenzy

Your sprinting ability came in handy there, Robert ! May not have been totm ..... I wonder if the pub staff washed their hands after the loo-

inthethick You are doing really well with fasting and exercise.
Just take it at your own pace - channel another MN mantra:
"It's a WOL, not a race"

Thank you for your support always BCF
inthethickofit19 · 11/07/2020 22:32

@BigChocFrenzy

Your sprinting ability came in handy there, Robert ! May not have been totm ..... I wonder if the pub staff washed their hands after the loo-

inthethick You are doing really well with fasting and exercise.
Just take it at your own pace - channel another MN mantra:
"It's a WOL, not a race"

Thank you for your support always BCF
robertsmithscorpsebride · 11/07/2020 23:06

Oh dear bigchoc, poo crumbs!!! It took a whole 2 hours with a hot water bottle to ease my tum, hmmm, put me off eating out now!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 23:55

Poor Robert I hope all is well in the morning
I'd choose another pub next time !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2020 00:00

I had a delic Caesar salad at my fav Rhine cafe this evening, my 3rd meal out fhis week
and I'll be going there again tomorrow evening.

  • but I know them well
OP posts:
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