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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2020 08:30

Never mind, inthethick Just move on
You could make tomorrow a miniFD, to finish off the week

To help stay on track, I recommend you roughly plan your menu for each NFD in advance, the day before
and stick to that plan.
Also that you include in the plan a small afternoon tea that includes protein, as you obviously find that lunch to supper is too big a gap.

That's impressive organisation, MissFliss

Good luck on your FD, MissFliss, MadAunt

Beaut That deletion ? Occasionally at night, a one-time poster will perv or spam on multiple threads

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 09/07/2020 08:41

SV - 72.5kg this morning which is .5 kg from my first goal weight and only 2.5kg from my ultimate goal!

Honestly @inthethickofit19 that just sounds like a nicely indulgent day. An FD will balance that out. A one off is never going to undo all your work Flowers

inthethickofit19 · 09/07/2020 08:48

Thanks for your support all.

@ BCF it's just that I saw the shortbread and couldn't resist Blush I don't normally eat between lunch and dinner. In hindsight I didn't drink enough water so will definitely up that today.

Will try a mini FD today. Tomorrow is my next FD.

inthethickofit19 · 09/07/2020 08:49

@harriethoyle excellent!! Well done!

MazDazzle · 09/07/2020 09:27

Don’t worry about it inthethickofit. Draw a line under it and move on. You’ll feel so much better after your next FD.

Thanks for the advice BC. I will try and stick to that for the next two weeks!

Well done harriet! A SV like that makes all the effort worthwhile. Smile

Good luck today Madaunt.

Ciderandskatesdontmix · 09/07/2020 10:43

A quick question for those more experienced than me. I have quite a lot of weight to lose to get to my end goal (about 4st Blush). I worked out my TDEE which seems pretty high (2300) should I be sticking to this on NFD or can I drop it lower? If I eat sensibly and don't snack, then I think I might actually struggle to eat that much during meal times!

inthethickofit19 · 09/07/2020 15:41

@Ciderandskatesdontmix

A quick question for those more experienced than me. I have quite a lot of weight to lose to get to my end goal (about 4st Blush). I worked out my TDEE which seems pretty high (2300) should I be sticking to this on NFD or can I drop it lower? If I eat sensibly and don't snack, then I think I might actually struggle to eat that much during meal times!
As I understand BCF has advised people to eat up to TDEE on nfds but if you feel full then you don't have to eat the whole allowance. Important not to restrict yourself though as it may not be sustainable. So listen to how you feel Grin
BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2020 15:51

Congratulations on your SV, Harriet
You're so close to goal now

Cider NFDs are "maintenance days" to maintain the FD deficit and relax.

Inthethick is right:
You should not deliberately try to eat under TDEE if it means you feel hungry.
However, if you feel satisfied, then stop eating, even if under TDEE

OP posts:
missfliss · 09/07/2020 18:24

Kitchen closing at 514 kcals. Also did a run this morning before work so very virtuous.

Am hungry and tired today though. It's my third fast this week ( Sunday, Tuesday and today) - at least I have 2 days in a row of 'normal' eating

MadauntofA · 09/07/2020 18:26

Well done Miss especially with the run. kitchen closed here at 510.

missfliss · 09/07/2020 18:28

Well done back @MadauntofA . Go us!

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 09/07/2020 18:50

I need encouragement Sad! I'm on my second fast of the week and only have a few hours to go before bedtime but I feel like I could eat a horse. I had no problem with Tuesday's fast but today I'm struggling badly. And it's not for lack of liquids, etc. It's so annoying. Angry

MadauntofA · 09/07/2020 18:53

Go clean your teeth McCavity - really does help

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 09/07/2020 18:55

Really??? I'm on my way then! Just have to stop myself squirting the toothpaste down my throat Grin.

MadauntofA · 09/07/2020 18:58

I wonder how many calories are in toothpaste 😂

DietChic · 09/07/2020 19:11

Just checking in - my Monday FD ended up being a NFD - and today is 647. I’m not that thrilled but am going to go and have a deep bath and brush my teeth. I have clothes a size down I MUST FIT IN TO.

Librarybooksandacoconut · 09/07/2020 19:53

FD #2 here. Had more pea and lettuce soup with yoghurt for lunch, then steamed trout, tomato couscous and salad for dinner. I’ve definitely felt less hungry than previous fast days and surprisingly energetic. I weighed myself on Tuesday and had lost 1.2kg since I started last Monday which I’m really pleased with.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 09/07/2020 20:14

Well done on your sv harriet and library😁
cat I hope the tooth cleaning worked.
Wow lots of fasters today, well done everyone.

Nfd today and I can feel my TOTM on its way Angry so no doubt this weekend weigh in will be scuppered! Fd #2 planned for tomorrow which will be difficult if TOTM does rear its head.... gah.... bloody hormones

diet that's not a bad fd total,enjoy your bath and have an early night

BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2020 20:14

Well done on your FD, MissFliss, Madaunt
and to Chic - your FD is fine

Not long to go, Macavity You can do this !
As Madaunt advised: Cleaning your teeth is a useful tactic
Psychologically, the clean taste and feel makes it less tempting to eat again

The 2nd FD is often tougher than the first, maybe because people have already burned a bit of fat and released water

Congratulations on your SV, Library
The lack of hunger sounds like you are adapting well to fasting, so it's a good start

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2020 20:17

Robert I advise everyone:

Do NOT weigh during totm

The weight value is often a temporary blip,
because hormonal changes cause most women to retain a few lb water - but keep drinking, so you don't retain more

This water will be released during the FD after totm end, so you can weigh the following morning

OP posts:
MacavityTheDentistsCat · 09/07/2020 20:41

Thanks to you all. The teeth cleaning helped a bit but not much. I think it's just one of those days.

Still, it's now going on 21:40 where I am so I can validly claim that I'm tired and having an early night ... and then just go and hide under the duvet until morning.

MadauntofA · 09/07/2020 21:33

Well done Macavity!

Beautiful3 · 09/07/2020 22:41

Well done Thursday fasters. Who's fasting with me tomorrow?

BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2020 23:33

Well done, macavity

I'll probably join you tomorrow, beaut - but depends on Saturday plans

OP posts:
MacavityTheDentistsCat · 10/07/2020 05:10

Thanks again! Well, I made it through and - how typical! - don't feel a bit hungry this morning. m just off to the gym and shall then have breakfast.

Good luck for today Beautiful, BigChoc and all other fasters!