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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
emcla · 08/07/2020 08:20

Anyone fasting today? I’m on board a b2b.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 08/07/2020 08:21

There was a queue when we got there too baba but it moved fairly quickly.

Ha ha bigchoc I know what you mean but they look quite tasty, mad I haven't tried them yet but its these www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/sjoerapport-salmon-balls-frozen-90452078/

robertsmithscorpsebride · 08/07/2020 08:21

Not today emcla good luck with your B2B 😁

harriethoyle · 08/07/2020 08:37

I'm with you @emcla aiming to push through to tea time...

inthethickofit19 · 08/07/2020 09:15

Ooo just feeling a little exhausted today otherwise would've been up for a b2b @emcla !

I survived last night - Next FD planned for Friday. Scales moving in right direction - 9 st 5.6lbs. Hope to be in 9st 4lbs something after next FD Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2020 09:20

Good luck with your FD, Bada, emcla, Harriet

Bada Sharing a roast with family on an FD can be done with adjustment and your own garden veg is lovely:

You have plenty of lean meat, no crispy skin or fatty bits
Do several different veg - not in sauce or oil - so you can pile your plate with plenty of each
Potato - a small new potato, not mash
Have 1 tbsp gravy
Avoid any sweet sauce

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2020 09:21

Well done on your FD and SV, inthethick

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 08/07/2020 09:41

FD here today.

I have my online PT session this morning. Fingers crossed for no cats and birds getting in the way today!

Beautiful3 · 08/07/2020 10:02

I'm fasting today too. Had a rubbish night's sleep. Usually I crave sugar when I'm tired, fingers crossed I don't self sabotage. Good luck Wednesday fasters.

Badabingbadabum · 08/07/2020 11:22

One thing I have discovered from fast days is that I am fine without sugar. On days when I eat normally, I am already consuming less sweet stuff, so instead of reaching for two biscuits if dh and I sit down with a coffee I am fine with none or if I do have one its far more considered rather than automatic

annabell22 · 08/07/2020 11:59

That's a win @Badabingbadabum

No loss this week so far despite 2FDs - one went up, the other stayed the same, but often the day after the FD is when the magic happens and if the 10k run this morning didn't kick-start my metabolism then I should have just stayed in bed! I've been to the shop for DH's dinner too, so I'm already on 18k steps.

inthethickofit19 · 08/07/2020 12:45

@Badabingbadabum I'm also finding this. Had never been a chocolate person but in lockdown I developed this habit of having a choc everyday! Have reined it back in now.

Is there any visual guidelines for how much pasta/ carbs to eat? I just had half plate salad, quarter plate pasta and two pieces of garlic bread (from a baguette). I can't believe it's taken me till my 30's to appreciate some salad with my food Blush

Just watching today's press conference - there's an update on shielding today (I'm in Scotland). It's been a long 3/4 months stuck at home so can't wait for some leeway.

MazDazzle · 08/07/2020 14:36

Well done on the 10K and the step count annabell!

Good luck beautiful. Lack of sleep gets me reaching for sugar/caffeine too.

Ciderandskatesdontmix · 08/07/2020 17:47

Newbie joining if that's ok. I started on Monday with my first FD. I'm doing my second FD today as it's DD2 birthday tomorrow, but normally I'll be trying to stick to a Monday and Thursday.

Beautiful3 · 08/07/2020 19:28

Thanks @MazDazzle, I didn't touch the chocolate/biscuits. Well done on your p.t session today. I hope the cats and birds left you alone! You've done very well to do it on a fast day. Welcome @Ciderandskatesdontmix, hope your daughter has a lovely birthday tomorrow. Kitchen closed at 570 for me.

harriethoyle · 08/07/2020 19:54

Kitchen closed at 502. Almost perfect Grin

MazDazzle · 08/07/2020 20:57

Welcome Cider. Hope your FD is going well.

Kitchen closed at 524 cals. Drank black coffee and water throughout the day and saved all of my cals for dinner.

I’m going away with DH for a couple of nights when he finally gets home, so if I could shave a few extra pounds off before I gets home that would be great. I’m on a two week count down!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2020 21:35

Well done on the sugar habits, Bada, Inthethick
That's very useful for longterm weight managementif you can make these changes permanent

Welcome, cider 🙂
Well done on your 1st FD
and you should have closed the kitchen after FD2 now

Best wishes to MiniCider for tomorrow 🎂

Well done on your FD, Maz, Harriet, Beaut

Harriet You are 2 calories over < wags finger 😂 >

Maz If you want a quick 2 -week boost before you go away:

  • Do 3 weekly FDs if you can, or 2 + a miniFD
  • Have a dry 2 weeks
  • Cut out sweet junk, biscuits, crisps, takeaways etc for 2 weeks if you can
  • Add short (5-20 minutes) HIIT sessions 4 days weekly to rev up metabolism e.g. sprint intervals, rope skipping or a short HIIT video

That's excellent exercise, Annabell
Many people lose in fits & starts rather than linearly, but it is important to stay focused each week however you lose
Patience and persistence over the weeks are the key to weight loss, because it is an extended process, not an event.
It's a WOL, not a race

Inthethick useful visualisation of portion sizes:

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group
OP posts:
harriethoyle · 08/07/2020 21:46

@BigChocFrenzy 🤣🙈

Same @MazDazzle and if I can just push through to dinner without anything I find it so much easier. I think it's kick started my weight loss too... losing again rather than maintaining which is great

inthethickofit19 · 09/07/2020 00:25

Well somehow let myself down today. The day got worse and worse. Never calorie counted (I'm doing 1 week of mfp)

1 weetobix for breakfast
Pasta, salad and garlic bread for lunch
Millionaires shortbread from costa mid afternoon (this alone is 400 cals Sad)
Turkish serbini with chicken kebab topping for dinner (it's a very thin wrap with minced meat - no idea what it's like for calories)
Biscuit at bedtime 😟

Jullyria · 09/07/2020 03:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

missfliss · 09/07/2020 07:23

Good morning Thursday fasters.

I'm on my last fast of the week - currently doing 3 a week on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays.

I push through till about 4 pm then have a snack ( prawns today) then dinner at 6 which will be sea bass with vegetables.

My fast day kit is ready to go

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group
emcla · 09/07/2020 07:32

Good luck miss.

I’m done for this week but might try a mini today. Not feeling hungry.

Welcome cider.

Beautiful3 · 09/07/2020 07:42

@inthethickofit19 don't worry, we all have days like that. A few weeks ago I kept eating out of the childrens nutella tub (my weakness either on its own/on toast/on icecream!) and going way over my calories on nfds! When you feel ready, do a fast day.

Out of interest does anyone know, why Jullyria's comments get deleted by mumsnet? What did she say?!

MadauntofA · 09/07/2020 07:47

Morning all! FD here as well. I have a lovely salmon/ couscous 300cal meal for tonight, so will probably have a boiled egg at lunch and some greens.

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