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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
annabell22 · 07/07/2020 08:02

I'm fasting today too so I can keep you company @inthethickofit19

I won't eat until dinner tonight. DH is at work so I will just keep myself busy, going out to lie in the sun shortly now it's moved into the right spot then I will go for a walk later. I've run three days consecutively so these legs need a bit of a break today. Lots of herbal tea and water ahead!

inthethickofit19 · 07/07/2020 08:39

@annabell22

I'm fasting today too so I can keep you company *@inthethickofit19*

I won't eat until dinner tonight. DH is at work so I will just keep myself busy, going out to lie in the sun shortly now it's moved into the right spot then I will go for a walk later. I've run three days consecutively so these legs need a bit of a break today. Lots of herbal tea and water ahead!

Thanks!

I'm working today and need to drink lots of water. We had Turkish mixed kebab last night and although I tried to be mindful of not eating too much I still feel rather full today.

Will have a boiled egg based meal at 4ish

BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2020 09:10

Good luck today, Inthethick, Annabell and any other Tuesday fasters
Drink water !

My training rest day today, as it is between the 2 days on which I have 2 gym classes:
Monday = am BodyStyling + pm Spin
Wednesday = pm Spin+Advanced Lifting

So I'm off now for a lazy Rhine walk - I'll also sit in the sun and watch the boats go by

Beaut As I posted, there are so few calories on FDs that Mosely says it doesn't matter how you split them or time them

On NFDs , it's a matter of finding a sustainable system to eat sensible amounts
Skipping supper instead of breakfast can often boost loss, but don't bother about doing this if it doesn't suit your life.

Try to avoid a system of large late (after 8 pm) suppers on NFDs,
especially avoid regular OMAD - have at least breakfast and / or lunch on NFDs

However, if you have a night out,
then saving nearly all your calories for supper is a useful strategy - because you are going to have a big meal then anway, whatever else you do.

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 07/07/2020 10:13

morning inthethick and annabell its FD#1 here too, next one planned for friday

Got small chicken breast with tomato, rocket and basil salad for dinner, thinking some boiled eggs or small omelette for lunch.
On my 3rd cup of tea, I need to drink more water!!

Enjoy your walk and sit out in the sun, as per usual, its raining here in the northwest!

emcla · 07/07/2020 10:14

I’m fasting too. Good luck everyone.

annabell22 · 07/07/2020 11:09

@robertsmithscorpsebride I'm on FD2 already - my week starts on a Sunday! I'll also do a mini FD on Thursday as we are eating out on Friday night plus a hotel breakfast on Saturday morning.

harriethoyle · 07/07/2020 11:35

Hi fasters, sorry I'm just bobbing in and out and not contributing much... elderly parents have gone to hospital and care home in the last week and I'm juggling so many balls I feel like my head's going to explode Confused

Kitchen closed on 460 yesterday and another fast planned for tomorrow. Hope you are all fasting like good'uns!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2020 13:39

Good luck, Robert, emcla

Oh that's very stressful for you about your parents, Harriet

  • I've been through that several years ago and there is so much to check and sort out fpr them - but you did really well to nail your FD yesterday

Take time to give yourself TLC, especially sleep 💐

OP posts:
SausageCrush · 07/07/2020 14:40

I finished my 24th fast of the year yesterday (just once a week for me, apart from the odd birthday blip)

I just wanted to say that I didn't eat anything and that I didn't notice feeling hungry either, which is really good news.

In the past I have often been aware of my grumbling stomach and have kept busy to distract myself.

This has been a bit of a revelation to me, and I just wanted to let any newbies to the thread know that if I can do this, then you can too.

Good luck Thanks

inthethickofit19 · 07/07/2020 14:42

@harriethoyle as BCF says, lots of tlc for you. Sending love

@SausageCrush are you maintaining?

robertsmithscorpsebride · 07/07/2020 15:31

oh harriet that sounds exhausting, TLC needed indeed Flowers

sausage you didn't eat anything, like all day Shock wow

Lunch was some boiled eggs, couple of slices of turkey and 100g cherry tomatoes with lots of salt and pepper, delicious! Off to IKEA now, hope there are no long queues, looking forward to dinner when we get back!

harriethoyle · 07/07/2020 16:17

Thanks gang. My FD was strangely comforting because it's one thing I can control among the chaos!

annabell22 · 07/07/2020 17:49

Kitchen closed - today I had two veggie sausages with gravy and veg (no potatoes) and a soya choc dessert which brings me within touching distance of 500. I was busy with admin this morning, then swam 10 lengths (at a snail's pace) and walked for 75 mins. Hopefully another successful FD.

missfliss · 07/07/2020 18:25

Kitchen closing here on 530 cals.

Hard day of demanding work ( clients) internal meetings, tradesmen galore ( loft conversion) and child coming home from school in tears ( usually very happy -has ASD and goes to a special school). Done in to be honest and note of this to look forward to all week.

Cannot wait till my house is my own again - got too much going on and we've had builders etc here since early feb

BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2020 18:30

Well done on your 24tn fast, sausage

and well done today, Annabell, MissFliss

10 lengths is excellent, Annabell
never mind the pace - you did it !

That sounds really tough, MissFliss
I hope the builders finish soon - it's so unsettling for all when there is building work going on

Not long to go, Robert
Don't get waylaid by the legendary IKEA meatballs

OP posts:
emcla · 07/07/2020 18:47

Fd done. Making soup for tomorrow now.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2020 19:14

Well done, emcla

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 07/07/2020 20:30

Kitchen closed at around 500

I'm really really tempted to order some food in though Sad in bed watching tv now. Trying to distract myself. Feeling a bit sore so no energy to get up and do anything else.

emcla · 07/07/2020 20:41

Don’t give in inthethick. Brush your teeth and drink water. Meditate. Tidy out a drawer. Empty the bin. Iron. Anything.....,

inthethickofit19 · 07/07/2020 21:01

Thanks! Nearly there now..

robertsmithscorpsebride · 07/07/2020 21:53

Stay strong inthethick

I resisted the meatballs bigchoc but did buy some fishballs to try 😁 fd done here on 486cals. I'm already in bed as freezing bloody cold!

Well done everyone else 😁

MadauntofA · 07/07/2020 22:11

Well done fasters! What are the fish balls like Robert?

MadauntofA · 07/07/2020 22:11

Well done fasters! What are the fish balls like Robert?

BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2020 23:38

Well done, Robert, Inthethick

I love fish, but somehow "fishballs" sound gruesome !
(yes, I know fish don't have 'em !)

OP posts:
Badabingbadabum · 08/07/2020 08:07

My fd on sunday went well, stuck to what I'd planned to eat (plus a very small piece of ham which didn't fit on dds sandwich, I just popped it in my mouth without thinking!Blush). Monday was an ikea trip and ate some lovely mini Dime bars. Yesterday I went on a walk for a few miles, picked up a couple of pieces of shopping including a wonderful sourdough loaf. Today is a fd so I'm thinking if I'm really hungry at lunch I may have s cream cracker spread with a little hummus, and I might roast a chicken for dinner with some roast veg and new potatoes from the garden. Even a small serving of that would be tasty and satisfying.

Hope ikea was ok, robert! We got there before 9:30 and there was a queue already for the 10am opening time.