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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
annabell22 · 05/07/2020 13:31

@inthethickofit19 post it and we can all join in - I am sure most of us have them!

inthethickofit19 · 05/07/2020 13:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

inthethickofit19 · 05/07/2020 13:35

One is breathing out and the other breathing in (don't know if this will help show the extent of how loose and jelly like it is!)

inthethickofit19 · 05/07/2020 13:43

Should've said - I've had 2 sections and 1 major abdominal surgery

Beautiful3 · 05/07/2020 17:45

@inthethickofit19 after two children, I also have a loose tummy. I've tried sit ups but they didn't work. The 5:2 diet is definitely making my tummy look better. I don't think the bit under my belly button will ever go back to normal.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2020 17:51

Inthethick Some of that tum will probably go as you slim down with IF

I suggest you also do short sessions of abs exercises to tone up that area
Aim for a few minutes 4-5 x weekly
Don't exhaust yourself with long sessions and obviously if it hurts while working out - STOP, that's enough for the day

Runners World has a good set of exercises for beginner abs:
https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/g28095895/abs-workout-beginners/

If you like videos (free), these are are just a few minutes each and should help you build up fitness
It's absolutely fine to take breaks during any routine as you'll probably need them at first

4 minutes standing:

10 minutes floor:

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 05/07/2020 18:15

Thanks ! Going to ask for the post to be removed, feels a bit strange!

inthethickofit19 · 05/07/2020 18:15

Thanks ! Going to ask for the post to be removed, feels a bit strange!

inthethickofit19 · 05/07/2020 18:40

BCF should I try to do the whole list on runnersworld or just start with 2/3 and then add the others in slowly?

missfliss · 05/07/2020 19:13

Clocking in at 520 kcal for today.
Not looking at scales till later this week after my big weekend, but some shorts I wore are loser

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2020 19:47

Inthethick I suggest you do what you can on the first day, then do the remaining ones on the next days

  • aim for a few minutes on 4-5 days per week

So rotate the exercises a bit
You'll find you gradually build up fitness after a couple of weeks and can do a bit more per day

Well done on your FD, MissFliess
and on your shorts NSV

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 05/07/2020 21:42

Thank you BCF

MadauntofA · 06/07/2020 06:49

Morning Monday fasters! Who is joining me today?

missfliss · 06/07/2020 07:07

Morning all. NFD here. Just checking in to wish all the fasters good luck.

My tip is to drink San Pellegrino on fast days - it's got a small amount of sodium ( salt) in and it really helps me - I know a tsp of marmite also suggested

YeetYeet · 06/07/2020 07:16

Hello - can I join?
I'm six weeks in to fasting, usual routine is 24hr fasts on Mon/Wed/Fri and 18:6 the other days (basically no breakfast).
Last week I managed a 42hr fast Sun-Tue so attempting that again today 🤞
Good luck to everyone else fasting today

DietChic · 06/07/2020 07:31

I’m in for a Monday fast!

Will try to leave it as long as possible til eating - I ate a big lunch yesterday and was so full I didn’t have dinner and still feel full now. Bleurgh.

Hope it lasts til 6pm anyway!

emcla · 06/07/2020 08:18

Good luck Monday fasters !

Beautiful3 · 06/07/2020 10:40

Wow that sounds so hardcore @YeetYeet. Is that a short term plan or are you hoping to always fast this way? I'm happy enough fasting 2-3 times a week. I'm fasting today, good luck Monday fasters!

Waspie · 06/07/2020 10:50

Checking in for a Monday fast day with you all Diet, Yeet and MadAunt and anyone else Brew

Well done on all of the SVs and NSVs Flowers

Waspie · 06/07/2020 10:50

Good luck Monday fasters!

inthethickofit19 · 06/07/2020 11:37

Checking in too.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2020 12:55

Welcome, Yeet 🙂

Many people successfully combine 5:2 with 16:8 or 14:10, to control NFDs

However, extended zero calorie fasts every week are not recommended by Mosely without medical supervision / advice
and his systems are the ones we do here.

Research by Varady comparing 0 cal to different % of TDEE found that the optimum results for fat loss and muscle retention is TDEE / 4,
which Varady & Mosely round off to 500 cals for women

Good luck today, MadAunt, Chic, YEet, Waspie

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2020 12:56

Good luck too, inthethick and any other Monday fasters

OP posts:
Librarybooksandacoconut · 06/07/2020 15:27

Joining in with all the Monday fastest. I’ve had a pea, lettuce and cucumber soup with a dollop of Greek yoghurt for lunch (far tastier than it sounds!) but then I was starving with nothing to do this afternoon. I ended up going for an hour's bike ride and miraculously feel less hungry!

For dinner I’ve got Spanish prawns and rice. My gousto subscription suddenly reactivated yesterday for no reason so I’ve got a box coming. By some miracle the prawns comes in at 336 calories so I can actually eat one of the meals today. I’ve definitely got to remember to cancel it for next week as I don’t think I’ll be so lucky next time

YeetYeet · 06/07/2020 16:13

Ah sorry I didn't realise the thread was only for those following Michael Mosley, I will disappear!
I am more into the approach of Jason Fung which focuses on insulin response instead of calorie control. Enjoying it so far.
@Beautiful3 I'm doing the longer fasts to lose weight but if / when I don't want to lose any more I imagine I will tick along ok on two meals a day in a 6hr window. A stone down so far, two more to go 💪
Good luck everyone!

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