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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 30/06/2020 22:15

Sorry, Nathan !!

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 30/06/2020 22:49

Thanks BCF - I'm just over 5 ft 2 and although I'm in healthy weight range I am at the upper end of bmi and being south Asian I want to get bmi to 20ish. I feel happiest around 8.5 stone so ideally my goal is 8 -8.5stone

That's another 1stone + to go!

inthethickofit19 · 30/06/2020 22:58

Just realised if I lost another stone I would be JUST under 8.5 stone and that would make me very happy 😃

inthethickofit19 · 30/06/2020 23:19

What's the best option for Greek yogurt? Was thinking of getting some for breakfast. Saw some fat free options? Probably need to get a flavoured one

MadauntofA · 01/07/2020 06:55

The flavoured yoghurts generally have sweeteners in - really hard to find one without! You are better off with a smaller amount of a full fat one. I tend to mash some raspberries or blackberries and mix in.
2nd FD of the week here. Good luck Wednesday fasters

annabell22 · 01/07/2020 07:08

Full fat Greek yogurt with desiccated coconut stirred in, then left overnight so it softens up, was one of my favourite breakfasts back in the days when dairy foods still liked me.

FD2 completed yesterday (FD1 was Sunday, in case you're all thinking 'But it's only Wednesday!") and a nice whoosh this morning took me to a weight equal to my lowest this year (which was back in Feb). A new month, a new goal, so I am aiming for a 1.5kg loss this month from 30 June to 31 July. I'll continue with daily exercise, 2FDs and tracking on NFDs.

Good luck Weds fasters, you can do this!

missfliss · 01/07/2020 07:10

NFD here. Wishing all the Wednesday fasters best of luck. My last FD is tomorrow ( Thursday). Then I have an epic and probably weight gaining weekend planned ( 10 year wedding anniversary celebrations involving hot tub, cocktails and Indian food) but back in it again from Monday

moonlight1705 · 01/07/2020 07:59

Meant to update but was watching the fascinating Tutankhamen in Colour on Iplayer last night.

My FD ended up being a mini as I was ravenous so I had 960 calories. I plan to make today a mini too plus Friday to keep things balanced.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 01/07/2020 08:37

Fantastic sv anna 😁
Happy anniversary miss enjoy the celebrations 🍾

DietChic · 01/07/2020 08:50

FD today - lots on, so i hope it flies by!

emcla · 01/07/2020 08:57

Ann that’s fantastic. Well done. Mini fd for me. Good luck fasters.

inthethickofit19 · 01/07/2020 09:01

Well done @annabell22 and happy anniversary @missfliss Grin

Good luck to all the tasters

NFD here 🤞

CharityRoyall · 01/07/2020 09:40

Hi everyone! Just wondered if people usually exercise on their FDs? I have been doing so but today I’m really struggling and feel hungry already. Not giving up as I’ve lost 10lbs this month while eating completely normally on non-FDs.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2020 09:57

Congratulations on your SV, Annabell

Well done on your mini, moonlight
It's good you can be flexible

Inthethick Full fat Greek yogurt will keep you fuller, just have less
and as pp said, avoid the flavoured kind
You can add a few berries, a sprinkling of flaked almonds, cinammon

Good luck, emcla, chic

Enjoy your anniversary weekend, missfliss

Congratulations on your SV, Charity

Most people can do some types of exercise on FDs, espeailly after your body has adapted to fasting.

However, with some very intense sports or long cardio sessions, try to schedule the FDs on your rest days or cross-training days.

Also, the NFD morning after an FD, you'll probably need breakfast before training for more than a short session.

On FDs, your glcogen stores will be low, or will become low later in the day,
so it's best to avoid long cardio sessions that heavily relies on these stores, such as sessions of more than about 40 minutes of running, swimming, elliptical trainer etc

What works best on FDs:
HIIT sessions e.g. sprints, spin class
resistance / lifting

That's because they can more easily use bodyfat for fuel instead of relying so much on glycogen stores.

OP posts:
Waspie · 01/07/2020 11:40

When I say running, I mean lumbering along like an ashmatic sloth wearing wellies Grin Grin I'm sure you look very dashing really harriet

I can't run - I've tried I just hate it. I don't know why I dislike it but I am happier playing a sport and running around on the basketball or tennis court so I have been doing that.

Congrats on your anniversary missfliss and your SV annabelle Wine

I've been doing 5:2 with my partner robertsmith and, as BCF says men lose weight like it's going out of fashion! My partner has lost 7Kg more then me in the same time period. He's not much taller than me though so our TDEEs are only 300 apart. 1100 is monstrous! Good luck Smile

NFD for me today - I fasted Monday as usual and will have a FD tomorrow. I weighed myself today and have lost another .4Kg and I definitely feel thinner.

Good luck Wednesday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2020 12:54

Congratulations on your SV, Waspie
Good progess

I don't like running either - when I'm outside I like to walk and chill, enjoy the scenery
I love strength / lifting & spin
Most of us can find some form of exercise we enjoy regularly, doesn't matter what

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 01/07/2020 13:23

I like the idea of running. I look at runners and think yeah, I’d enjoy that, but when I try I’m a lumbering, wheezing mess.

This morning during my online PT session, I was doing a set of press ups when my cat leapt over my head with a bird in its mouth. The poor thing was frantically flapping around my kitchen. All hell broke loose. The kids were jumping around. I couldn’t catch it. The bird was flying into walls... madness. Then when I did catch it I had to carry on with the press-ups.

Today is a FD. Attempt number 3!

I WILL succeed today, I WILL.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/07/2020 14:41

Good luck today, maz

If you can persist through that pressup experience you can do anything !

It sounds the most amazing pressup session ever,
with the animals joining in to give you extra heart failure cardio 😂 😂

OP posts:
Quackersandcheese3 · 01/07/2020 15:05

Fast day today. I’m loving black coffee! Going to have pesto crumbed fish for dinner and some fruit. Doing 3 fast days this week, it’s my third week with this lifestyle change.

I’m still enjoying it and positive about the future with this eating plan. Doing 3 fast days this week.

inthethickofit19 · 01/07/2020 16:20

I have a NSV to report.. know it sounds pathetic but I have fibromyalgia and joint hypermobility and have done zero exercise in forever.. bought an exercise bike and started off at 3 mins, was absolutely floored so literally had to do 1 min a day then 2 etc.. I'm up to 5 now Grin

Waspie · 01/07/2020 16:36

Thanks BCF. I've always been too self conscious about my weight to go to the gym. I understand that it is a real habit - that adrenaline high Smile.

Good luck for third attempt Maz - you can do it!

That's a great NSV inthethickofit19. Well done Flowers

3 FDs in a week, you are really going for it Quackers, good luck!

Beautiful3 · 01/07/2020 19:00

Kitchen closed at 624!! Did an hour on the excerise bike too. Husband remarked that I look slimmer today and is now interested in the 5:2 diet. He is an already slim manual labourer, who has never stopped working throughout lock down. But I dont think he'd be able to work on 600 calories, given the amount of labour he does?! Hope you all did well Wednesday fasters! 😘

DietChic · 01/07/2020 20:05

Kitchen closed at 660. Not perfect but could be worse. DH brought fudge home. Irritating.

MadauntofA · 01/07/2020 20:07

I'm done at just under 600. Looking forward to breakfast tomorrow!

emcla · 01/07/2020 20:13

Total fail here. What’s wrong with me ? Did my 5 k walk and 10 mins run and a one minute sprint. Hopefully tomorrow will be a good fd.

Well done everyone

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